The 991 price correction?
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,700
Likes: 623
Other cars
Hold their value. Ferrari, ford, lambo, all increase. Porsche has never seen an increase in modern non GT cars but I do not think they made anything as good as the 991 previously. Even lotus modern cars maintain value now. For that matter, I bought my VW golf R 2.5 years ago and it has increased by 5k over what I paid new with 20k miles. Could be market pressures but I think the correct answer is market sophistication. Car shows, reviews and proliferation of technical understanding have even neophytes appreciating vehicles with high performance. Things may have changed for a long time or until we all drive toasters. I do not see a bubble but rather a paradigm shift.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 989
Likes: 385
Most high end luxury car dealers I drive past look more like they have been vacated then being a functional dealership. Try to find a Gwagon anywhere close to sticker.
The only guy making money is the tumble weed guy.
All kidding aside there are ~325 991's that are CPO right as of 11/2/2021. There are 196 Porsche dealers in the US, so that means there are an average of ~1.66 CPO 991's per dealer. Some have 0, some have 1, some have 2. Few have more then that, and they are not in the mood to negotiate. Some dealers have put out some wishful pricing and their inventory hasn't moved but when their floor plan has almost nothing in it, they can afford to sit on stuff a bit longer then usual especially sports cars. A 992's at this point in time is more of a veblen good rather then a more 'common' sports cars. The Boxster and Cayman have even been dragged along for the ride. The GT cars are whole other realm of insanity, they were the original veblen good in Porsche land.
Right now things are cooling off a bit (IE no longer going seemingly parabolic in terms of price increases, but prices are still very high) we would need both the stock market to tank and real estate to tank if we really want to see the car market pricing bubble get popped.
The only guy making money is the tumble weed guy.
All kidding aside there are ~325 991's that are CPO right as of 11/2/2021. There are 196 Porsche dealers in the US, so that means there are an average of ~1.66 CPO 991's per dealer. Some have 0, some have 1, some have 2. Few have more then that, and they are not in the mood to negotiate. Some dealers have put out some wishful pricing and their inventory hasn't moved but when their floor plan has almost nothing in it, they can afford to sit on stuff a bit longer then usual especially sports cars. A 992's at this point in time is more of a veblen good rather then a more 'common' sports cars. The Boxster and Cayman have even been dragged along for the ride. The GT cars are whole other realm of insanity, they were the original veblen good in Porsche land.
Right now things are cooling off a bit (IE no longer going seemingly parabolic in terms of price increases, but prices are still very high) we would need both the stock market to tank and real estate to tank if we really want to see the car market pricing bubble get popped.
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 25
Likes: 6
From: MA
I'm not sure what would push prices down here. You either need a massive increase in 992 supply, which based on everything we're reading about waitlists and the continuing production squeeze/shipping issues, clearly isn't happening in 2022, or a market correction. I could see a scenario where rates spike, the market drops hard and everyone who favored financing over paying cash 'because I can make 8% in the markets!' not only loses a chunk of their principal, but their jobs too and become forced sellers.
Aside from that, I don't see a change in market dynamics in 2022 and I say that selfishly as someone who paid August's high prices for a 2015 991.1 CS4 cab and would love nothing more than to drive it for a year and punt for similar to what I paid (or maybe, just maybe, more).
Aside from that, I don't see a change in market dynamics in 2022 and I say that selfishly as someone who paid August's high prices for a 2015 991.1 CS4 cab and would love nothing more than to drive it for a year and punt for similar to what I paid (or maybe, just maybe, more).
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 574
From: North/Central, NJ
One thing to consider also is the trajectory of the stock market over the last few years, that is, it means this "free money" that is driving prices up in addition to the shortages, etc. If things level off or go south then that could be a function of the pricing as well ....
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 553
From: Calgary, AB
In my opinion, we're not even at the start of dealing with the ramifications of printing so much money during the pandemic. It's going to take several years before we see some sort of "balance" in the market. Even then, I personally don't think car prices will ever go back to where they were. Will they go down from where they are now? Probably, but definitely not to pre-pandemic levels.
All I know is that I could sell my 991 to the local dealer today for more than I paid for it in 2017 (I won't, because there isn't anything else I would replace it with aside from another 991.1). The pricing is insane to me, but it seems to be something of a new reality.
I just traded in my 6 year old Golf R for $32k CAD. I only paid $41k for it brand new.
All I know is that I could sell my 991 to the local dealer today for more than I paid for it in 2017 (I won't, because there isn't anything else I would replace it with aside from another 991.1). The pricing is insane to me, but it seems to be something of a new reality.
I just traded in my 6 year old Golf R for $32k CAD. I only paid $41k for it brand new.
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 493
Likes: 214
From: New Hampshire
NH? You tell me if these prices seem high or low? Especailly for 2013 cars. https://www.porschenashua.com/used-i...BwE&search=911
I also checked Porsche Stratham who most of the year had between 0 and 1 911s they now have 5 so a 5 x increase.
Last edited by NHmacan; Nov 3, 2021 at 10:45 PM.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,591
Likes: 1,336
From: NH/FL
These cars have not sold yet so there is no telling if they are high or low. As a point of reference Porsche Nashua has at the most had 5-6 911s for sale at any one time over the last year. They now have 21 so we are talking about 4X in supply.
I also checked Porsche Stratham who most of the year had between 0 and 1 911s they now have 5 so a 5 x increase.
I also checked Porsche Stratham who most of the year had between 0 and 1 911s they now have 5 so a 5 x increase.
Last edited by subwoofer; Nov 3, 2021 at 11:06 PM.
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 493
Likes: 214
From: New Hampshire
yeah I have no idea if this pricing is reasonable or not. I have bought two new cars from P of Nashua, a 2013 Boxster S and my current 2018 C4S, both factory orders. They gave me a good discount, ~ 6% on each order and a good trade on the Boxster for the 911. These asking prices for 8-9 year old cars seem high but what do I know! I have to go there tomorrow for winter tires so maybe I’ll ask them.
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
9 Vehicles Porsche Helped Engineer that Aren't Porsches
Verdad Gallardo
9 Features and Characteristics That Only Porsche People Understand
Verdad Gallardo
I've Written 500 Rennlist Articles: Here's How Porsche Has Changed Along the Way
Joe Kucinski
10 Most Unnecessary Porsches Ever Built (And Why We Love Them)
Verdad Gallardo
Porsche 911 GT3 S/C vs 718 Spyder RS: 10 Categories, One Winner
Joe Kucinski
This Builder Is Turning Heads With Its Slantnose 911 Creation
Verdad Gallardo
Porsche 911 GT3 Artisan Edition Pays Homage to Japanese Culture
Verdad Gallardo
Porsche Reveals Coupe Variant of the Electric Cayenne With a Fresh Look
Verdad Gallardo
10 Porsche Colors That Have More Personality Than Most People
Verdad Gallardo
AutoX
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
From: Southern Alberta
This is a link to Manheim used car value index. Not Porsche specific, and only updated to October 15th. They update mid-month and month end. I think these indexes indicate it isn't over yet.
Used Vehicle Value Index
Used Vehicle Value Index
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 158
Likes: 27
Is the 991 price correction underway with the sport chrono stop sale lifted and the 992 GT3 deliveries?
I was looking for a GT3 earlier in the summer and have noticed there are now many 991.2 GT3s under 200K. When I was looking there were only a few.
I had a friend who had to buy a car on short notice and a local dealer had a 2016 c4s and they told him 120K he offered 95K and they countered at 115. This was all before they posted on their website. When they finally put it on they did for 110k. I just looked and it’s down to 97k.
I spoke to a sales guy just before the stop sale was lifted and he told me they were sitting on over 20 Carrera S . Now that all those are hitting the market I think the prices will need to come back to reality.
I was looking for a GT3 earlier in the summer and have noticed there are now many 991.2 GT3s under 200K. When I was looking there were only a few.
I had a friend who had to buy a car on short notice and a local dealer had a 2016 c4s and they told him 120K he offered 95K and they countered at 115. This was all before they posted on their website. When they finally put it on they did for 110k. I just looked and it’s down to 97k.
I spoke to a sales guy just before the stop sale was lifted and he told me they were sitting on over 20 Carrera S . Now that all those are hitting the market I think the prices will need to come back to reality.
Track Day
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 19
Likes: 6
From: Houston, TX
I spoke with a Porsche dealer Sales Manager yesterday. He tried to buy a 3 yr old Cayenne at auction 2 days ago. He backed out at $69k, it sold for $69.5k. The MSRP on that car was $73k when it sold new 3 years ago.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,017
Likes: 1,480
From: Long Island, NY
A few months back we were looking at buying a CPO 2018 Cayenne Platinum for 45-48k range to replace my wife's expiring lease. Waited about 2 months, came back to look and the same exact spec trucks were now listed for low 60's. We ended up buying her lease out.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,591
Likes: 1,336
From: NH/FL
I was there this morning to get my summers swapped for winter wheels and tires. They had bunch of 991s sitting on the lot. Spoke the service manager. He is a very nice guy. He told me that the 911s were from a backlog due the stop sale and now they are able to sell them. Pricing is high but he said they have no inventory of new cars. For a new 992 allocation, he said 2023. The few allocations of the Macan GTS are already sold. So strange times indeed if one wants a new Porsche. They have some base Macans. I'm glad not to be in the market for a new P car.
Last edited by subwoofer; Nov 4, 2021 at 06:29 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 28
Likes: 19
From: St-Ours, Québec, Canada
Hi,
Note : I am in Canada, so the prices given are in Canadian dollars.
Before buying my 2013 911 Carrera S (991.1) convertible in black this summer, I was searching for a Mettalic Blue one with the good options during 3 years and I found nothing. During my 3 years searching and screening websites, the average prices was between 80 and 85 000 $ CAD (+ sale tax) for a 991.1 Carrera S convertible with Sport Chrono Plus and 65-75 000 km. When I finally decided to buy a black one during spring 2021, the prices for the same specs was 90-95 000 $, so a 10% increase. A vendor proposed me a 2014 Carrera 4S convertible salvage completly rebuilded at 115 000 $ CAD pretexting that the car had only 25 000 km. Completly crazy...
Finally this summer I found a 2013 911 Carrera S convertible with Sport Chrono Plus, PSE, Two tones Tan/black leather options, with 102 000 km ( all major 40, 60, 80 000 km maintenance and all services done at Porsche) with new rear brakes, new set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires for 87 000 $ CAD + Sale Tax. I bought it.
Sometime, when we are waiting to long before buying, hopping for a good deal, most of the time it results of having nothing in return... The life is short, so I did the buy...
I think that a 12 years old 991.1 in mint condition look (motor, inside, outside) with 120 000 km will still be sell for $ 80-85,000 CAD $ in 5 years as the 991.1 and 991.2 are the last with a naturally aspirated engine.
Note : I am in Canada, so the prices given are in Canadian dollars.
Before buying my 2013 911 Carrera S (991.1) convertible in black this summer, I was searching for a Mettalic Blue one with the good options during 3 years and I found nothing. During my 3 years searching and screening websites, the average prices was between 80 and 85 000 $ CAD (+ sale tax) for a 991.1 Carrera S convertible with Sport Chrono Plus and 65-75 000 km. When I finally decided to buy a black one during spring 2021, the prices for the same specs was 90-95 000 $, so a 10% increase. A vendor proposed me a 2014 Carrera 4S convertible salvage completly rebuilded at 115 000 $ CAD pretexting that the car had only 25 000 km. Completly crazy...
Finally this summer I found a 2013 911 Carrera S convertible with Sport Chrono Plus, PSE, Two tones Tan/black leather options, with 102 000 km ( all major 40, 60, 80 000 km maintenance and all services done at Porsche) with new rear brakes, new set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires for 87 000 $ CAD + Sale Tax. I bought it.
Sometime, when we are waiting to long before buying, hopping for a good deal, most of the time it results of having nothing in return... The life is short, so I did the buy...
I think that a 12 years old 991.1 in mint condition look (motor, inside, outside) with 120 000 km will still be sell for $ 80-85,000 CAD $ in 5 years as the 991.1 and 991.2 are the last with a naturally aspirated engine.
Last edited by Eloas; Nov 7, 2021 at 02:00 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 240
Likes: 38
From: SF, CA
How can the 991 drop in price if my daily driver 2018 prius is about to be sold to Carvana for 3.5K more than I bought it for (tax inclusive). They are offering me more than the MSRP of the car when new!
Hell the Model Y I purchased to replace the prius as a daily has gone up 4K MSRP (~7.5%) in less than 2 months from when I ordered it!
Hell the Model Y I purchased to replace the prius as a daily has gone up 4K MSRP (~7.5%) in less than 2 months from when I ordered it!
Last edited by systemr; Nov 7, 2021 at 08:33 PM.