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B16 or spring change

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Old 06-18-2021, 12:33 PM
  #16  
stout
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Originally Posted by AdamSanta85
I do, and it helped, but it will only go so far. The spring rates are doubled from Base to B16

Spring Rates:
  • Base 991: 24nm/48nm
  • PASM: 28nm/62nm
  • PASM-S/GTS?: 33nm/108nm
  • KW HAS: 44nm/100nm
  • GT3: 45nm/120nm
  • Bilstein B16 Damptronic: 50nm/110nm
  • Elephant Stage 1: 52nm/96nm
  • 991.2 GT3 RS: 100nm/160nm
^ Always nice to see this kind of info—and would be great to compile more of it. Suspect most of these are 991.1?

991.2, even base, got a lot stiffer—which was particularly obvious over low-speed stuff. TechArt springs soften the car a lot in those situations, as they're progressive, but then PASM doesn't know what to do as the rates rise exponentially. Not an issue for cruisers (most of the time), but the car just doesn't handle as well and I'll be removing mine at some point. To the OP, now knowing your use case, I would not recommend TechArt springs. I have 22,000 miles on them, with a couple of track days, and the car handed better stock than it does now. The only downside of stock was the SUV ride height (and thus higher CG, but lowering springs' advantage does not outweigh their disadvantages in this case).
Old 06-18-2021, 12:40 PM
  #17  
stout
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Don't agree at all with the idea that coil-overs are automatically better—or that springs are automatically better. Or that one rule or the other applies to one model or year vs another.

Or that springs and dampers matched by Company X beat dampers developed by Porsche matched to the right springs by someone who knows what they're doing. Last part is the tricky part, and conventional lowering springs just about never hit the mark. KW's H.A.S. system looks best, and thus I am curious to see if TechArt will do one for 991s like they do for 992s—but it would be great to see Mike or Tom over at TPC create a height-adjustable spring set to go with their fabulous DSC (which helped issues with my TechArt springs, but did not solve them). With DSC, the choice is aftermarket springs or straight to coil-overs. Among the latter, I'd look at Tractive from—but that's a $$,$$$ upgrade. Might be overkill for a lot of people out there.

Company X coil-overs may be throwing away and a lot of R&D done by some of the best suspension people in the world. Also, and it's only my theory, I like the idea of keeping the interface between the 991's aluminum shock towers with the top mounts designed by Porsche's series production engineers for structural reasons. Nice thing with the H.A.S. setup is you keep very good PASM dampers and all their functionality—which DSC pays a high compliment to.
Old 06-19-2021, 12:31 PM
  #18  
rugu6869
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^ Stout - I agree that one isn't by default better than the other for sure.
I know 100% that there are many more factors than just spring rates also. Valving makes a huge difference in the way the suspension acts/reacts to the road. Just because a spring is stiffer, the overall package could softer feeling overall. If you have a soft spring, but a very aggressive valving, it could be a jarring ride.
Bilstein IMHO has an advantage over all other aftermarket solutions simply because they are the OEM supplier of the dampers. They have access to engineering details that other companies will not.

I do know that everything is subjective (sound and ride being one of the most debated topics on most forums). I drove my car yesterday and purposely went back and forth between normal and sport mode on the shocks. Normal mode is still compliant and not at all harsh. I still need to install my DSC module, which should soften things up even more.
Old 06-19-2021, 02:43 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by rugu6869
^ Stout - I agree that one isn't by default better than the other for sure.
I know 100% that there are many more factors than just spring rates also. Valving makes a huge difference in the way the suspension acts/reacts to the road. Just because a spring is stiffer, the overall package could softer feeling overall. If you have a soft spring, but a very aggressive valving, it could be a jarring ride.
Bilstein IMHO has an advantage over all other aftermarket solutions simply because they are the OEM supplier of the dampers. They have access to engineering details that other companies will not.

I do know that everything is subjective (sound and ride being one of the most debated topics on most forums). I drove my car yesterday and purposely went back and forth between normal and sport mode on the shocks. Normal mode is still compliant and not at all harsh. I still need to install my DSC module, which should soften things up even more.
^ Yes to most of this.

However, it doesn't explain why Koni damper valving was far, far better than Bilstein for many years—and I haven't been all that impressed with some Bilstein products here in CA. Perhaps it's a different matter in other locations, and I will say I've driven some very impressive street cars with PSS9 and PSS10s as well as re-valved Bilstein dampers set up by people who knew what they were doing. Off the shelf is another matter. I was convinced by a number of people I respect to go Bilstein HD in my old Porsche, and what a mistake that was. I'll be rebuilding with rebuilt Koni or KW, most likely.

Right now, I am looking hard at KW H.A.S. to replace my TechArt springs—as I think the PASM dampers are fine for my use application (80-90% daily driver, 10-20% back roads). If I was serious about dampers, I might look at Tractive. But that's probably overkill for my application, and outside of what I am comfortable with re: budget for the application.
Old 06-25-2021, 10:46 AM
  #20  
mpath
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I just installed the B16 Sport version last week. So far I like it, and putting on a few miles to allow it to settle before fine tuning it. What did you guys set the dampening to, front/rear? I daily drive it.

Last edited by mpath; 06-25-2021 at 10:56 AM.



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