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Unfortunately this is not known, I do not have a flow bench or system to measure the resistance or thermal efficiency. Regardless of what I read, generally I test components in some cases much more than the manufactures themselves. So you could say that my testing is flawed and I could not argue but I can say that what testing that was done yielded results, with my setup, which were not favorable give the amount of time and money spent.
Not a critique of your testing, but a more general question if anybody actually knows the pressure drop across the OEM IC and the 'upgraded' intercoolers at various boost /power output levels.
Also curious to know if we know the improvement in efficiency in the intercoolers at WOT prolonged pulls, i.e. are the Tial/AMS units showing a 10%? 40%? 50% improvement etc.
I firmly believe that your data is true, and makes sense.
You can definitely oversize an intercooler for a given planned power output, and that for less than a certain power level (randomly picking 550 rwhp) that the OEM units may be sufficient.
Agree 100% on the safety differences between an external IC sprayer setup versus water injection. Not familiar with what the M4 GTS setup is like but Aquamist makes a great system. But tuning to the edge of safety with water injection can be a serious problem if you run out of water/methanol or run into issues with running dry during hard cornering.
Glad that somebody is doing some data collection and looking forward to more data.
To OP. Who are you and what shop do you represent where you have done all this testing?
thank you
Not a shop just a retired engineer, I was specialist in heat transfer and pumping, that has lots of interest when it comes to this type of thing. I designed and built very large industrial facilities that supply the most of the US with Food & Beverage with some pharmaceuticals, petrochemical and even the occasional research facility.
My passion has always been in the automotive sector but I was able to make much more money removing heat from dead animals then removing heat from turbos. ;-)
As for the testing I use simple equipment, primarily the AIM Solo II DL when on track however validated it with the Porsche Track Connect App, when it works. The data was complied across a large number of sessions and laps, over 500 at Heartland Park in Topeka, KS, in the last year on my own car in pursuit of my own perfect Porsche.
Here is some data from a GTS and X51 S for reference.
All laps were at least the third or more lap into the session and all comparisons were done with comparable lap times. Note that there is a very large difference in temps with as little as a 4-5 second lap differential.
Not a shop just a retired engineer, I was specialist in heat transfer and pumping, that has lots of interest when it comes to this type of thing. I designed and built very large industrial facilities that supply the most of the US with Food & Beverage with some pharmaceuticals, petrochemical and even the occasional research facility.
My passion has always been in the automotive sector but I was able to make much more money removing heat from dead animals then removing heat from turbos. ;-)
As for the testing I use simple equipment, primarily the AIM Solo II DL when on track however validated it with the Porsche Track Connect App, when it works. The data was complied across a large number of sessions and laps, over 500 at Heartland Park in Topeka, KS, in the last year on my own car in pursuit of my own perfect Porsche.
It looks like the car is straight after the final turn from 60-130mph, so I timed those. Lap 4 (151.9) was 8.90 sec 60-130. Lap 5 ( PB? 148.37) was 8.44. How do those 60-130 times compare to your OEM intercooler laps?
You have to read between the lines when it comes to marketing! I would guess the APR probably has the best data out there with the extents of there testing but getting past sales to someone with the knowledge to discuss the specifics has been impossible for me to date.
Ill quickly chime in as I have been asked to and will try to get you more info and details when I have some more time. With that said The OP has some good data for sure and very similar to what I saw with the Base Carrera Testing when we were at VIR and Barber. When we did our Base Carrera Testing the stock intercoolers would be hotter going down the long straights and shed heat in the corners better.
For Intercooler Testing I have not tested GTS cars back to back against stock on the road course, just with the upgraded Tial intercoolers. The back to back we did was with the base turbos as noted above. I personally will keep using the Tial's currently as having the extra HP down the back straight should help carry a little more power and reduce time a little in the straights and you don't need quite all that power at corner exit, so I am ok with having a little warmer IAT there. Also the Tial intercooler has a provision printed in the end tank for a water injection nozzle Good forethought there!
These cars are effected by IAT and Air density dramatically, especially when you start getting 55+C on IAT. The more dense air charge you can have the more power the car will make. And not just a little, it will be substantial difference. The intercoolers are currently great for drag racing, dyno pulls and street pulls. From my testing they are not needed on the Base Carrera Tune but on the S and Carrera GTS for those cars they make a big difference on the dyno and the drag strip. This is most likely due to the increased mass flow the core now needs to support even though compressor discharge temps are about the same from turbo to turbo with our calibration. I believe one of if not the biggest problem is the ability to get rid of the heat through our insufficient ducting to the intercooler.
We are about to do a bunch of water injection testing as well as some ducting tests to work on improving cooling for better temp control at track. Ill be happy to share my findings when we start our testing. We are adding about 10 more new sensors to conduct this testing. So Ill make sure to do a write up after our track day and development work.
It looks like the car is straight after the final turn from 60-130mph, so I timed those. Lap 4 (151.9) was 8.90 sec 60-130. Lap 5 ( PB? 148.37) was 8.44. How do those 60-130 times compare to your OEM intercooler laps?
That was an older video with all stock parts. I do not have any acceleration data fro Draggy, the Strip........ but I do have data from the AIM. I will see if I can set up a scatter plot or something similar that may show the acceleration.
At this track there is a fairly large incline, we call it Alpha Zero, so it should not be compared to a drag strip.
Here is some data from a GTS and X51 S for reference.
All laps were at least the third or more lap into the session and all comparisons were done with comparable lap times. Note that there is a very large difference in temps with as little as a 4-5 second lap differential.
Impressive how the ECU allows more boost with cooler IATs.
Not surprising.
In lieu of significant modifications to the rear of the car, simpler mods such as an external IC sprayer may be reasonable.
08-03-2020, 03:55 PM
