Advice on buying CPO 991.2
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Advice on buying CPO 991.2
I've owned several Porsches and currently drive a 993 C4S as a weekend toy. I've been looking to buy at a Porsche dealer sold CPO 991.2 GTS with <3k miles (as a second 911/daily driver) and wanted to know what I should look out for on such a low miles car with CPO warranty. With my 993 I had extensive due diligence with PPI, etc. but that was a totally different situation. I've owned a 991 previously, so I'm quite familiar with the car.
With such low miles on a CPO, I don't think a PPI is needed. It's a PDK, so not sure that an over-rev report is needed either, but can't hurt to ask. Any other tips or thoughts? Would you consider sight unseen given the miles and CPO status (assuming clean single owner CarFax and good service docs). TIA
With such low miles on a CPO, I don't think a PPI is needed. It's a PDK, so not sure that an over-rev report is needed either, but can't hurt to ask. Any other tips or thoughts? Would you consider sight unseen given the miles and CPO status (assuming clean single owner CarFax and good service docs). TIA
Last edited by rk-d; Jan 7, 2020 at 09:11 AM.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,726
Likes: 447
PPI - put a paint gauge to that vehicle, (from personal experience, I bought a CPO 997.2 many years ago from Champion, my first porsche, clean car fax, go to trade vehicle in - learned it had the right rear fender repainted, Park place caught it). Learned a lesson....(lucky was only one panel and didnt effect our numbers we negotiated (that we new of),, still made me angry at Champion. Make sure it has proper maintenance records and than just buy.. I also learned, don't fall for the rock chips in the clear bra... have them remove the clear bra from the vehicle (you will replace it anyways) - Another lesson learned 991.1S second 911 bought from them, rock chips through clear bra...
Mechanically they should be good, because its a new car, However,
Every 911 I have bought, I told the dealership I intend to track it and YOU are telling me this car is in order - I have them complete a PCA track inspection form and than I have it done again from my local dealership. - Dealer (Parkplace) caught a leaking PDK and repaired it before my delivery.
I have never had a CPO vehicle that was NOT up to shape mechanically, and all of 911's I have owned were extremely reliable.
Just minor paint issues.
Latest one , did it all perfect... But I stole the vehicle for the price I got, can't complain and was shocked they excepted the offer.
My local Dealer said I got them (selling dealer out of state) at the right time of the month apparently, they thought car was in great order and worth more.
Mechanically they should be good, because its a new car, However,
Every 911 I have bought, I told the dealership I intend to track it and YOU are telling me this car is in order - I have them complete a PCA track inspection form and than I have it done again from my local dealership. - Dealer (Parkplace) caught a leaking PDK and repaired it before my delivery.
I have never had a CPO vehicle that was NOT up to shape mechanically, and all of 911's I have owned were extremely reliable.
Just minor paint issues.
Latest one , did it all perfect... But I stole the vehicle for the price I got, can't complain and was shocked they excepted the offer.
My local Dealer said I got them (selling dealer out of state) at the right time of the month apparently, they thought car was in great order and worth more.
Last edited by snake eyes; Jan 7, 2020 at 04:30 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,644
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From: NJ
I would not buy sight unseen for three reasons:
1. That's a huge chunk of money to just spend blindly
2. Dealers don't always pay the attention they should on CPO, so don't assume they have done so.
3. You can CPO a car that has minor (and multiple) panel damage. I would want to be crystal clear if that was the case on any car I was buying.
1. That's a huge chunk of money to just spend blindly
2. Dealers don't always pay the attention they should on CPO, so don't assume they have done so.
3. You can CPO a car that has minor (and multiple) panel damage. I would want to be crystal clear if that was the case on any car I was buying.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,726
Likes: 447
I would not buy sight unseen for three reasons:
1. That's a huge chunk of money to just spend blindly
2. Dealers don't always pay the attention they should on CPO, so don't assume they have done so.
3. You can CPO a car that has minor (and multiple) panel damage. I would want to be crystal clear if that was the case on any car I was buying.
1. That's a huge chunk of money to just spend blindly
2. Dealers don't always pay the attention they should on CPO, so don't assume they have done so.
3. You can CPO a car that has minor (and multiple) panel damage. I would want to be crystal clear if that was the case on any car I was buying.
Make them REMOVE the clear bra
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 168
Likes: 74
From: Miami, FL
A DME report will tell you way more than just over-revs:
I look for the usual over revs but also for service hours and times the car has been started. What I do is to divide the miles by number of starts. A car with low miles per start may not be ideal as it probably never got to warm up real well in most circumstances. i.e., saw a very nice 2015 with under 10k which had an average trip of less than two miles.
Also, I divide miles by service hours to get a sense for type of driving. Saw a car with an average speed of less that 8 miles. Probably a stop and go car with 20k miles .... or it just sat in the garage warming up before it was driven.
My previous 997 had an average trip of 27 which was very consistent with my boss’ boss commute. The average speed was low 30s. Had 48k miles but very low cycles and drove like a 10k mile car.
My new (to me) C4S has an average trip of 5.8 miles and an average running time of close to 17 minutes if I recall correctly. Average speed in the low 20s. I was able to confirm with previous owner that she drove it across suburbs to work three times a week. Did I mention 0 over revs in 1 or above?
Finally on the 991.2, saw a bunch with plenty over revs in 3 (with PDK) but because none on 4 (or above) they where CPO. Here I was able to figure many of these have been tuned and the tune allows for a higher red line. Saw an immaculate one with less than 5k but with almost 3,000 in rev 3 with very high starts and low operating hours. When I asked a bit more identified a previous owner who loved to hit the rev limiter every morning on every light. Car was fine but wonder how that engine will do down the road.
The math may no be exact, but there is more to these numbers. They tell you a story.
PS. On a PDK they won’t share with you because “it is a PDK and it can not over rev”. Somewhat true by a non modified PDK car should have very few in 1 and less in 2. Never in 3 .... yet many have them.
Also, they mostly won’t share the start cycles as most sales guys have no clue. Ask and ask. They will eventually will share.
I look for the usual over revs but also for service hours and times the car has been started. What I do is to divide the miles by number of starts. A car with low miles per start may not be ideal as it probably never got to warm up real well in most circumstances. i.e., saw a very nice 2015 with under 10k which had an average trip of less than two miles.
Also, I divide miles by service hours to get a sense for type of driving. Saw a car with an average speed of less that 8 miles. Probably a stop and go car with 20k miles .... or it just sat in the garage warming up before it was driven.
My previous 997 had an average trip of 27 which was very consistent with my boss’ boss commute. The average speed was low 30s. Had 48k miles but very low cycles and drove like a 10k mile car.
My new (to me) C4S has an average trip of 5.8 miles and an average running time of close to 17 minutes if I recall correctly. Average speed in the low 20s. I was able to confirm with previous owner that she drove it across suburbs to work three times a week. Did I mention 0 over revs in 1 or above?
Finally on the 991.2, saw a bunch with plenty over revs in 3 (with PDK) but because none on 4 (or above) they where CPO. Here I was able to figure many of these have been tuned and the tune allows for a higher red line. Saw an immaculate one with less than 5k but with almost 3,000 in rev 3 with very high starts and low operating hours. When I asked a bit more identified a previous owner who loved to hit the rev limiter every morning on every light. Car was fine but wonder how that engine will do down the road.
The math may no be exact, but there is more to these numbers. They tell you a story.
PS. On a PDK they won’t share with you because “it is a PDK and it can not over rev”. Somewhat true by a non modified PDK car should have very few in 1 and less in 2. Never in 3 .... yet many have them.
Also, they mostly won’t share the start cycles as most sales guys have no clue. Ask and ask. They will eventually will share.
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A DME report will tell you way more than just over-revs:
I look for the usual over revs but also for service hours and times the car has been started. What I do is to divide the miles by number of starts. A car with low miles per start may not be ideal as it probably never got to warm up real well in most circumstances. i.e., saw a very nice 2015 with under 10k which had an average trip of less than two miles.
Also, I divide miles by service hours to get a sense for type of driving. Saw a car with an average speed of less that 8 miles. Probably a stop and go car with 20k miles .... or it just sat in the garage warming up before it was driven.
My previous 997 had an average trip of 27 which was very consistent with my boss’ boss commute. The average speed was low 30s. Had 48k miles but very low cycles and drove like a 10k mile car.
My new (to me) C4S has an average trip of 5.8 miles and an average running time of close to 17 minutes if I recall correctly. Average speed in the low 20s. I was able to confirm with previous owner that she drove it across suburbs to work three times a week. Did I mention 0 over revs in 1 or above?
Finally on the 991.2, saw a bunch with plenty over revs in 3 (with PDK) but because none on 4 (or above) they where CPO. Here I was able to figure many of these have been tuned and the tune allows for a higher red line. Saw an immaculate one with less than 5k but with almost 3,000 in rev 3 with very high starts and low operating hours. When I asked a bit more identified a previous owner who loved to hit the rev limiter every morning on every light. Car was fine but wonder how that engine will do down the road.
The math may no be exact, but there is more to these numbers. They tell you a story.
PS. On a PDK they won’t share with you because “it is a PDK and it can not over rev”. Somewhat true by a non modified PDK car should have very few in 1 and less in 2. Never in 3 .... yet many have them.
Also, they mostly won’t share the start cycles as most sales guys have no clue. Ask and ask. They will eventually will share.
I look for the usual over revs but also for service hours and times the car has been started. What I do is to divide the miles by number of starts. A car with low miles per start may not be ideal as it probably never got to warm up real well in most circumstances. i.e., saw a very nice 2015 with under 10k which had an average trip of less than two miles.
Also, I divide miles by service hours to get a sense for type of driving. Saw a car with an average speed of less that 8 miles. Probably a stop and go car with 20k miles .... or it just sat in the garage warming up before it was driven.
My previous 997 had an average trip of 27 which was very consistent with my boss’ boss commute. The average speed was low 30s. Had 48k miles but very low cycles and drove like a 10k mile car.
My new (to me) C4S has an average trip of 5.8 miles and an average running time of close to 17 minutes if I recall correctly. Average speed in the low 20s. I was able to confirm with previous owner that she drove it across suburbs to work three times a week. Did I mention 0 over revs in 1 or above?
Finally on the 991.2, saw a bunch with plenty over revs in 3 (with PDK) but because none on 4 (or above) they where CPO. Here I was able to figure many of these have been tuned and the tune allows for a higher red line. Saw an immaculate one with less than 5k but with almost 3,000 in rev 3 with very high starts and low operating hours. When I asked a bit more identified a previous owner who loved to hit the rev limiter every morning on every light. Car was fine but wonder how that engine will do down the road.
The math may no be exact, but there is more to these numbers. They tell you a story.
PS. On a PDK they won’t share with you because “it is a PDK and it can not over rev”. Somewhat true by a non modified PDK car should have very few in 1 and less in 2. Never in 3 .... yet many have them.
Also, they mostly won’t share the start cycles as most sales guys have no clue. Ask and ask. They will eventually will share.
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 4,200
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From: Dickson, TN
Where are you and where is the car located.
I would not take anyone words or documents over my own eyes.
Even if you need to ship the car to your home....... the price of a plane ticket or rental car is money well spent to get your eyes on your big purchase.
I would not take anyone words or documents over my own eyes.
Even if you need to ship the car to your home....... the price of a plane ticket or rental car is money well spent to get your eyes on your big purchase.
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2015
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Thanks all
I'm going to be sure to personally eval. I've done the sight unseen thing before. It was a bit hairy and I'm not rolling the dice again.
My main dilemma is this car vs a 992 C2S. I can probably get a discount on the latter making it cheaper than the GTS - for a newer car with arguably similar performance. I just don't love the way the 992 looks compared to the 991.2. The value question is really tough because resale is going to matter to me on this one.
I'm going to be sure to personally eval. I've done the sight unseen thing before. It was a bit hairy and I'm not rolling the dice again.
My main dilemma is this car vs a 992 C2S. I can probably get a discount on the latter making it cheaper than the GTS - for a newer car with arguably similar performance. I just don't love the way the 992 looks compared to the 991.2. The value question is really tough because resale is going to matter to me on this one.
Burning Brakes
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From: NoVA
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: SW Colorado
Thanks all
I'm going to be sure to personally eval. I've done the sight unseen thing before. It was a bit hairy and I'm not rolling the dice again.
My main dilemma is this car vs a 992 C2S. I can probably get a discount on the latter making it cheaper than the GTS - for a newer car with arguably similar performance. I just don't love the way the 992 looks compared to the 991.2. The value question is really tough because resale is going to matter to me on this one.
I'm going to be sure to personally eval. I've done the sight unseen thing before. It was a bit hairy and I'm not rolling the dice again.
My main dilemma is this car vs a 992 C2S. I can probably get a discount on the latter making it cheaper than the GTS - for a newer car with arguably similar performance. I just don't love the way the 992 looks compared to the 991.2. The value question is really tough because resale is going to matter to me on this one.
If resale is important, you will probably take a bigger hit on depreciation on a new car.