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All season tire/wheel package - what I learned, perhaps will help someone
I have spent the past three months researching the best way to equip my 2018 991.2 4S (my first Porsche) with wheels/tires for winter months in my home state of Virginia. Needless to say, I have learned a lot, some very good information on this forum and from other sources, and want to share in case anyone out there is looking for same.
1. Since I live in Virginia, I was less interested in the OEM winter set up that Porsche offers - the winter temperature swings here are too great to make good use of winter tires (had them on my Audi Q7, went through them very quickly, not unusual to go from 25F to 60F in a couple of days here)
2. Speaking with the Porsche service folks, they recommended all season tires and my researched confirmed that this would be the way to go. I settled on Bridgestone Potenza RE980AS as my preferred set up (based on some great reviews in RL - there are not many option, frankly, only found this one in the size I was looking for). The tire sizes for that match the car are 245/35 R20 front and 305/30 R20 for rear. My plan is to drive when it's cold, dry, limit wet driving, and I would not drive in snow. It's a fun car that is driven a lot but with control of when, not a commuter car.
3. I was not interested to spend a lot of money on this second set as I have the Spyder RS wheels with new Michelins as my main and love them. Hence, initially was looking to purchase a used set - and learned a couple of things - a/ there are not many sets available for WB 991.2 (most are for NB), and none had the all seasons (all came with summers or winter Pirelli or Michelin - would have been ok to drive on winters till they are dead and replace them with all seasons, but it seemed as unnecessary expense.
4. So I started looking at after market options for new wheels - there are several flow forged wheels that are reasonably priced - have considered Avant Garde Ruggers, HRE FF-04, Vossen vsf1, and my favorite Vorsteiner VFF101. I learned that, with the exception of the HREs, the wheels were not available (stock out) for quite some time (Vorsteiners 90day plus, etc.). So thinking that just picking up the phone and calling will get me wheels was naive. I realized that since it's a very small market, and WB 991.2 is a small subset, it's not really easy to get what you want when you want it. Also, the stock colors were limited - silver or black, and I did not like either.
5. When I started looking at wheels, I discovered the world of different rim sizes, and the more fun world of offsets - who knew that this could be so confusing?
6. I learned that the Bridgestones are best mounted on 8.5" fronts, and 11" rears - going wider will stretch them too much (several pics on RL), and they will not look good (Bridgestone has a width range here - https://tiresize.com/tires/Bridgesto...za-RE980AS.htm)
7. This information kept me away from some wheel option - it seems that the after market trend is to go 9" front and 12" rear (was told that some companies will not make 8.5" front any longer for 991.2 since 9" work great, same concept for rear)
8. So I started looking only for 20" 8.5/11 set. And here is where I learned a lot about offsets. Lots of great discussion about offsets on RL, and thank you to all who share their experience - frankly it inspired me to write this post.
9. My Spyder RS wheels are 8.5x20 ET49 front and 11.5x20 ET 56 rear. The OEM winter set from Porsche for my WB 4S has 8.5x20 ET49 front (same) and 11x20 ET56 rear (more tucked in), with 295 wide rear tire (vs 305 summer). Here is where I discovered a very useful offset calculator that proved to be very helpful - https://www.1010tires.com/Tools/Wheel-Offset-Calculator - and learned that going narrower in rim width with the same offset means that the wheel will be tucked in more.
10. I compared the OEM offset with aftermarket wheels and learned that all AM wheels recommended for my car are much more aggressive (meaning they will "stick out" more, and be more flush w/fender vs. sitting more in) than OEMs - somewhere between 5-10 mm. I was not sure how big of a deal this would be. As I researched and looked for options, I got more comfortable with the more aggressive offsets, but it was still hard to find the right size wheels (8.5/11)
11. When I started looking and learning, I decided that I did not want spacers, but with the limited availability of options for WB car, I started to calculate offsets with potential spacers in mind to achieve a set up that would make sense. So I started looking at NB options that, with the help of rear spacers, I could make work. There are a ton of spacer options, I wanted good quality and settled on ECS Tuning spacers in case I would need them.
12. Almost two months into my search, I saw a new listing on RL for my favorite Vorsteiner VFF01 wheels in graphite - 8.5x20 ET40 and 11x20 ET 55. By now, I knew that these must be coming from NB car, but since I liked the design, decided to contact the seller and consider them - knowing that with some rear spacers, I could potentially make it work. The front was a bit aggressive, I thought, but when I used the offset calculator, I realized that they would be the same as a 9x20 ET45 which is a common measurement these days. They seemed like a good deal ($900 for total set), and the seller was fantastic to deal with, so I purchased them. Got a great deal on shipping (thank you Henrik), and got wheels in great shape in original boxes literally the next day (NC to VA via Fedex).
13. So here I am, with wheels that I am still not sure if they will fit my car, but reasonably confident that they should. I figured if I put together the package and I cannot make it work, someone with narrow body 991 will be interested to take it. So ordered tires from Tirerack, and had them mounted/road force balanced at a local shop.
14. Since I saw that the 40mm front wheel offset on 8.5 would match the current "typical" 45mm offet on 9", I decided to match the rear as well. I calculated that I need 10mm spacers for rear wheels and ordered them from ECS Tuning.
15. Yesterday, I had Paul Overstreet who runs a great indy shop in Gordonsville VA and who has been extremely helpful through the process, swap the summers for this set. I was delighted that the wheels were great fit when we lowered the car. So now I am set for the cold months. Gave the car a good run yesterday, and was very happy with the way it handled so happy with the decisions.
To summarize what I learned:
1. There is no one size fits all - wheel sizes and offset can be really confusing. There are tools (offset calculator) and people (Paul and many of you) that were extremely helpful
2. I could have gone with other offsets - and it would be very acceptable. I would not go more aggressive, but could go anywhere between the OEM and this and it would be fine
3. Used wheel option for 991.2 WB are very limited. I got creative and it seems to work (will post if I run into any issues down the road)
4. Based on very limited (one day) experience - the all season Bridgestones seem like a good choice for area like central VA
5. The total cost of the entire package including install was $2300
Hopefully this will help someone, feel free to reach out if I can be of any help. I read your posts every day and learn a lot, so hoping to pay back a little.
Kudos on being safe and proactively putting on proper tires - I use a set of RS Spyders and Michelin Alpins (245/295) and am very happy!
Yesterday we had snow squalls pass through the area, where other cars were pulled over on the side with blinkers going, I was able to confidently zip right through without a hint of slippage
On my 991.1 GTS, I went with the 980AS's 245/305 and 8.5/11 OZ Legerra HLTs. I would have preferred 295's for the rear but they ar backordered and TR said they would not be doing a production run until Februaury.
The OZ'a are within +/- 1mm on offset from the stock wide body 991.1 GTS wheels.
I would not tackle deep snow with this set-up, but they should be OK for the type of weather we have here between December and March.
Nice write-up OP! I also just fitted a set of the Bridgestones onto wheels I bought from another gentleman Rennlister called Ruben. In my case Carrera S wheels which he had bought new and never used.
I really like them so far, they are quiet, grip well, and best of all the ‘acorn’ effect on full lock has disappeared. It was really bad on my previous P-Zeroes.
Also if anybody wants rear 295’s try Discount Tire they have them.
Looks great. I did the same tires here in TN but went for the HRE FF04. No spacers on a Carrera T but the offset is more aggressive than stock. Really enjoy the car with these tires in the colder temps. Mid 20s driving in today and no issues. The Pirellis are like concrete blocks below 40.
Thanks for the helpful info! This will undoubtedly save some people time and effort. Question though - why don't you just mount the Bridgestone's on the OEM spyder wheels and use them year round? From what I've read, they actually compare quite favorably to the summer Pzeros in warm weather.
Thanks for the helpful info! This will undoubtedly save some people time and effort. Question though - why don't you just mount the Bridgestone's on the OEM spyder wheels and use them year round? From what I've read, they actually compare quite favorably to the summer Pzeros in warm weather.
After having driven the RE980 for 5K miles or so that is exactly what I would have done if I had it to do over again. Instead I discarded the P Zeros and put PS4S N0s on my RS Spyder wheels and bought a set of O.Z. Leggera HLTs and wrapped them with RE980s. Would have saved me a lot of money to just put the RE980s on the Spyder wheels. I've done a fun drive in the 911 with the RE980s in (dry) weather well below freezing. Pushed the car as much as I dared push it on a public road and the tires didn't give an inch. Granted, I haven't done that in 95 degree weather, so maybe they would falter there. But at the very least they are more tire than you need on a public road in cold or wet conditions.
My car, which I bought used w/7600 miles, came with Pzeros. Was not a huge fan. I had a puncture that I was not able to plug, so purchased brand new Michelins Pilot 4S right before I started looking for winter set. I like the summer tires (was not sure how well I will like the all seasons). The rims on the Spyders are wider in the back, so I thought that they would not fit the all seasons as well. Plus I don't like to swap tires on the same rims. Had a big chip happen when the Porsche dealer put the P4S on (they replaced the wheel with brand new one for free). The cost of swapping ads up, lots of RLsters cautioned against that. Plus I wanted something a bit different as long as it was not expensive. I like where I ended up. Long answer to short question, hope it makes some sense.
What i learned as an engineer, while living in the snowbelt so many winters, flies in the face of ractices routinely discussed today. If you want the best handling and traction in the slippery and in deep snow, choose tires that are a bit narrower with higher profile than Summer tires. They will flex more to help in the slippery to avoid breaking loose, and they dig deeper for better traction in deep snow. Narrower rim widths help too.
No need to spend that extra cash to match Summer tire sizes, because you will not be driving like it's Summer.
i chose to avoid driving my Porsches in Winter and stored them. I used a beater equipped with a Winter set, with narrower and taller profile, for better handling and grip in Winter conditions. I used my beater with a Summer set in the warm months for foul weather driving and for my short Summer commute, to avoid getting my Porsche aged by the sun in the outdoor parking lot at the office.
It worked well for me!
After having done basically what you did with my GT3T a year ago researching, I know the effort that goes into it. Thank you for posting your findings. I will add mine below.
For centerlocks (GT3, GTS, Turbo) the factory winter wheels (for a turbo with the 8.5in front) with bridgestone RE980AS are great, but they are spendy (used wheels with snows — which I sold — plus new bridgestones were more than double what you spent), I would still prefer factory winter wheels even with five lugs, but finding a set of any used factory winter wheels is hens teeth. The main benefit (or detriment depending on your view point) is that factory winter wheels tuck into the rear fender more which stops stuff from spraying the fender as much. Cosmetically it is different, but I like the look — more old school 911. The OZ centerlocks are also a good option (if you can find those). Finding the 11in rears that have the right offset is the real challenge of the bridgestones (while an 11.5in rear they fit, it’s a bit stretched, on a 12in they are stance life level stretched). I wish Bridgestone would make a true N spec 305, a 325 rear, or something that would be happy on a 12in rear. Oh well, I am sorted, but I really think for a majority of owners, they would be happier with bridgestone AS than other options and the wheel fitment to run them is the real issue.
What i learned as an engineer, while living in the snowbelt so many winters, flies in the face of ractices routinely discussed today. If you want the best handling and traction in the slippery and in deep snow, choose tires that are a bit narrower with higher profile than Summer tires. They will flex more to help in the slippery to avoid breaking loose, and they dig deeper for better traction in deep snow. Narrower rim widths help too.
No need to spend that extra cash to match Summer tire sizes, because you will not be driving like it's Summer.
i chose to avoid driving my Porsches in Winter and stored them. I used a beater equipped with a Winter set, with narrower and taller profile, for better handling and grip in Winter conditions. I used my beater with a Summer set in the warm months for foul weather driving and for my short Summer commute, to avoid getting my Porsche aged by the sun in the outdoor parking lot at the office.
It worked well for me!
Agree. 185-235 width (based on weight of vehicle) with plenty of sidewall is the way to go for winter. I grew up north of buffalo so I know snow. I do drive my porsches in winter, but I reserve them for dry, salt free, days. I don’t like letting cars sit as I don’t think they like it. I know when there was one clear day last winter I spent half of it driving all the special cars just to get everything used.
Unfortunately, I know some people have fit 275 rears for winter, but there is no good way to make a modern porsche run on tall and skinnies.
Great write up! Offsets can be extremely confusing. If anyone ever needs some help feel free to reach out!
Agreed, this is extremely confusing for me. You guys at TAG are great...I purchased some TechArt lowering springs from you guys for my 991.2 Targa 4 GTS and plan on buying an Akrapovic exhaust from you in the Spring. Maybe you can help answer this question.
I recently purchased some secondhand HRE R101's that were for a GT3 -like new condition, which are 9jx20 ET44 Front and 12jx20 ET45 Rear, my dealer said they would work on my 991.2 Targa 4 GTS (centerlocks), but after doing some research (i'm more confused), but I believe these won't work without the appropriate spacers. Based on the spec page from PNA, my stock spec wheels are 9jx20 ET51 Front and 12jx20 ET63 Rear, so I purchased some Eibach spacers-7mm front and 18mm rear. Is this the right approach to take in order to get an accurate offset? Also, I have noticed that there is a bit of rub on the front wheels after installing the TechArt springs. Any guidance would be great....thanks in advance.
*PS. AFTER MORE FORUM SEARCHES IT APPEARS CLs CANT ACCEPT SPACERS
Last edited by Schinken44; 12-24-2019 at 08:51 PM.
12-19-2019, 10:15 AM
All season tire/wheel package - what I learned, perhaps will help someone
I do drive my porsches in winter, but I reserve them for dry, salt free, days. I don’t like letting cars sit as I don’t think they like it. I know when there was one clear day last winter I spent half of it driving all the special cars just to get everything used.
