Where to learn to control a spin?
12-05-2019, 01:17 AM
#31
Snow tires. Pirelli Sotto Zeroes. I knew I'd be facing freezing temperatures and snow.
It seems odd that you'd think snow tires would render you immune to control issues on snow. Unless you've never really driven on packed snow, just on cold (but dry) pavement, or only driven at fairly low speeds.
The car was very stable and felt totally under control until it wasn't. No problems going straight, or negotiating curves at 45 MPH intended for 80 MPH when dry. Plowing into the snow on the shoulder put a lot of drag on the right front tire, and that's what put us into the initial spin.
I'd rather some expert instruction than trying to learn on my own. I think I'd probably learn entirely the wrong things.
I'm not sure how easy it is to replicate the conditions I was facing in a parking lot, either. The road had been plowed, so it's not like fresh snow, but the plow and traffic (though sporadic) had pressed down what was left. The resulting surface was a lot better than ice, but had definite limits on traction.
Just for the record, I have the AWD variant of the GTS, not the RWD.
I've done icy roads in a RWD car with summer tires. By coincidence - given your screen name - it was in a '97 Supra Turbo, when I was moving from California to Boston, and wasn't anticipating ice on the roads on the trip so didn't have the foresight to change tires. That was pretty horrible, I felt a constant wobble at 30 MPH. The AWD 991.2 with snow tires was a pleasure to drive by comparison, and I was feeling quite safe up until the incident.
It seems odd that you'd think snow tires would render you immune to control issues on snow. Unless you've never really driven on packed snow, just on cold (but dry) pavement, or only driven at fairly low speeds.
The car was very stable and felt totally under control until it wasn't. No problems going straight, or negotiating curves at 45 MPH intended for 80 MPH when dry. Plowing into the snow on the shoulder put a lot of drag on the right front tire, and that's what put us into the initial spin.
I'd rather some expert instruction than trying to learn on my own. I think I'd probably learn entirely the wrong things.
I'm not sure how easy it is to replicate the conditions I was facing in a parking lot, either. The road had been plowed, so it's not like fresh snow, but the plow and traffic (though sporadic) had pressed down what was left. The resulting surface was a lot better than ice, but had definite limits on traction.
Just for the record, I have the AWD variant of the GTS, not the RWD.
I've done icy roads in a RWD car with summer tires. By coincidence - given your screen name - it was in a '97 Supra Turbo, when I was moving from California to Boston, and wasn't anticipating ice on the roads on the trip so didn't have the foresight to change tires. That was pretty horrible, I felt a constant wobble at 30 MPH. The AWD 991.2 with snow tires was a pleasure to drive by comparison, and I was feeling quite safe up until the incident.
Mostly practice recovering from traction loss and counter steering. If you have to think about it consciously then like any sport you’ll do a lot worse than your muscle memory could with practice.
lots of good suggestions for instruction. PEC has a kick plate exercise that replicates what you describe. It’s fine it’s fine of****countersteerforlife
12-05-2019, 06:53 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
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HA-HA! It's a 911, with the engine over the *** end, virtually impossible to recover the car, the 911 is famous for that. The gods of dynamic traction control are what will save you, TRUST THE COMPUTER, LUKE. Because without the electronic assist you just put both feet in (one foot if PDK) and pray you don't whip the *** end of the car into the guardrail - which is another known 911 trait when the car spins and there is no traction control..
If you want to learn spin recovery, you have to get a better balanced car, and old BMW M3 will do nicely. 50/50 weight distribution, not 42 / 58 as in the 991.
If you want to learn spin recovery, you have to get a better balanced car, and old BMW M3 will do nicely. 50/50 weight distribution, not 42 / 58 as in the 991.
12-05-2019, 07:01 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Snow tires. Pirelli Sotto Zeroes. I knew I'd be facing freezing temperatures and snow.
It seems odd that you'd think snow tires would render you immune to control issues on snow. Unless you've never really driven on packed snow, just on cold (but dry) pavement, or only driven at fairly low speeds.
The car was very stable and felt totally under control until it wasn't. No problems going straight, or negotiating curves at 45 MPH intended for 80 MPH when dry. Plowing into the snow on the shoulder put a lot of drag on the right front tire, and that's what put us into the initial spin.
I'd rather some expert instruction than trying to learn on my own. I think I'd probably learn entirely the wrong things.
I'm not sure how easy it is to replicate the conditions I was facing in a parking lot, either. The road had been plowed, so it's not like fresh snow, but the plow and traffic (though sporadic) had pressed down what was left. The resulting surface was a lot better than ice, but had definite limits on traction.
Just for the record, I have the AWD variant of the GTS, not the RWD.
I've done icy roads in a RWD car with summer tires. By coincidence - given your screen name - it was in a '97 Supra Turbo, when I was moving from California to Boston, and wasn't anticipating ice on the roads on the trip so didn't have the foresight to change tires. That was pretty horrible, I felt a constant wobble at 30 MPH. The AWD 991.2 with snow tires was a pleasure to drive by comparison, and I was feeling quite safe up until the incident.
It seems odd that you'd think snow tires would render you immune to control issues on snow. Unless you've never really driven on packed snow, just on cold (but dry) pavement, or only driven at fairly low speeds.
The car was very stable and felt totally under control until it wasn't. No problems going straight, or negotiating curves at 45 MPH intended for 80 MPH when dry. Plowing into the snow on the shoulder put a lot of drag on the right front tire, and that's what put us into the initial spin.
I'd rather some expert instruction than trying to learn on my own. I think I'd probably learn entirely the wrong things.
I'm not sure how easy it is to replicate the conditions I was facing in a parking lot, either. The road had been plowed, so it's not like fresh snow, but the plow and traffic (though sporadic) had pressed down what was left. The resulting surface was a lot better than ice, but had definite limits on traction.
Just for the record, I have the AWD variant of the GTS, not the RWD.
I've done icy roads in a RWD car with summer tires. By coincidence - given your screen name - it was in a '97 Supra Turbo, when I was moving from California to Boston, and wasn't anticipating ice on the roads on the trip so didn't have the foresight to change tires. That was pretty horrible, I felt a constant wobble at 30 MPH. The AWD 991.2 with snow tires was a pleasure to drive by comparison, and I was feeling quite safe up until the incident.
12-05-2019, 08:09 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
12-06-2019, 04:12 PM
#35
Intermediate
Great thread and topic that really requires regular practice to develop / maintain excellent response and muscle memory.
Coming from BMW CCA, I worked for a few years with a Private BMW Coach at their Spartanburg, SC facility and we spent hours each time on their skid pad. To the OP, as mentioned earlier in this thread, this is an option you can pursue with BMW. I am a new Porsche Driver so I am unaware if you can heavily/solely practice on the Skid Pad at Barber. Otherwise HPDE classes with Skid Pad engagement is another option.
OP, you are smart to want to practice car control, it is an important skill to maintain and one that you lose without regular practice.
Coming from BMW CCA, I worked for a few years with a Private BMW Coach at their Spartanburg, SC facility and we spent hours each time on their skid pad. To the OP, as mentioned earlier in this thread, this is an option you can pursue with BMW. I am a new Porsche Driver so I am unaware if you can heavily/solely practice on the Skid Pad at Barber. Otherwise HPDE classes with Skid Pad engagement is another option.
OP, you are smart to want to practice car control, it is an important skill to maintain and one that you lose without regular practice.