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I recently read a article 997.2 market that indicated the 997.2 may be on the upswing in value and that the MT is an option often sought. Honestly, I think the 991.1 is everything the 997.2 is "and a bag-of chips"! It is normally aspirated, refined infotainment, increased performance and has shown few mechanical foibles. What's not to like about it? I think it too will see the same kind of second life/resurgence. Mine has been great! Future classic? Thoughts?
As someone who cross shopped both the 991 and 997.2 extensively before purchasing my 991.1 what I can tell you is that from a Porsche 911 purists standpoint the 997.2 is more often desirable for many debatable reasons which may be why your seeing this upswing in price.
The 991.1 is a fantastic car and exterior looks wise I would argue it's the most beautiful 911 ever produced but for many including myself it also represented the first major shift away from the intimately sized, visceral sports car it once was. The advancements made in the 991.1 can also be viewed as drawbacks in some instances and there are pluses and minuses to many aspects of the car.
I've heard somewhere before that Porsche's greatest competitor is Porsche itself and when comparing the two side by side that becomes very apparent. My 991 feels more suited for high speed highway and country road driving where the 997 feels more suited to country road and back-roads carving.
It's really depends on how it's being used of course, but for a weekend toy the 997.2 is ultimately more satisfying of a drive because of the increased feedback and smaller playful nature with performance that feels more accessible than the 991's that feels almost always out of reach at anywhere close to legal speeds.
As for the making's of a future classic? It's hard to say and it will depend largely on how the car will be viewed in 10-20 years though I guarantee it has a far better shot than the 991.2 who's downsized turbo engine represented another major shift. It will also depend (as with all newer cars) how well all the added technology holds up long term and the added complexity in servicing certainly may play a factor there.
I can say that your definitely right that all the ingredients are there with the NA engine, top level looks and performance and for those of us with a manual trans even more so but coming from the perspective of someone who's owned several generations of 911 over the years the jury is still out for me personally as to which one is "better" or more worthy of being a future classic.
This is a "my wife is prettier" argument. I cross-shopped and picked up a 997.2 for a lot of the "future classic" reasons. 6-speed MT over the 7. Hydraulic over electric. Smaller size. To my eyes better proportions (especially the wide bodies). The trouble-free 9A1. But I didn't buy it to appreciate. I just liked it better and am driving the nuts off it.
No reason to think the 991.1 will not have a resurgence. I have a client that bought matching GTS Coupe and Cabs when he heard the .2 was going turbo. But not a lot of articles about the .1 being classic. At least not yet.
You are completely correct about the basis for the popularity of various models of Porsches. I have owned Porsches purchased new in 1974, 1987, 1989,1995, 2013 and 2915. Each has represented an improvement in many things. Yet all have become more complex than we mere mortals (some with doctoral degrees) can comprehend. Moreover, in the most recent cars, many can be worked on only with tools that MUST be purchased from Porsche. Many years ago, I used to collect all the belts in my '87 and '89 Carreras since I was afraid of being caught in the hinterlands without parts or understanding of local mechanics . I knew how to replace belts. We now know that Porsche has upped the requirement for tools that can only be exclusively purchased from them. I did not own many of the tools so they abandoned me. I now have no choice but deal with the dealer.
Been thinking about buying a 991.2 or 992 so I don't have to put miles on my 991.1. They are so addicting. But that's just crazy talk, they are going to depreciate no matter. Drive mine year round and recently let my "daily" BMW 550 lease expire and haven't replace it. Only car I'm driving is the 991.1.
I really don't want this thread to devolve into a "whose wife is prettier" type conversation. Its just that the 991.1 has characteristics that I believe will also garner a classic type following later.
I too owned the 997 albeit the 997.1 C2S and really enjoyed it. Much of my ownership was overshadowed by my perception of its glass engine. However, it never failed me or failed to please! It seemed much, much more coarse than my 991.1 C4S though. My first drive in the 991 C4S was like one endless drink of smooth & quick. So fast and so effortless it makes a crappy driver like me feel capable. The AWD is voodoo that skulks about in the shadows and only becomes perceptible when the flat 6 caldron is at full boil. Breathtaking. The sound, mesmerizing...
Been thinking about buying a 991.2 or 992 so I don't have to put miles on my 991.1. They are so addicting. But that's just crazy talk, they are going to depreciate no matter. Drive mine year round and recently let my "daily" BMW 550 lease expire and haven't replace it. Only car I'm driving is the 991.1.
Every mile with a smile.
It's funny you say that because from the day I bought my 991.1 I've been caught in a struggle between driving it or preserving it. My problem is that they will never make a car like this again so I will never be able to replace it with a newer and more worthy example if and when I do wear it out. I'm not interested in the extreme overkill GT cars for a street toy and feel that the 991.2 was a major step in the wrong direction with the turbo engine and the 992 was a giant leap even further in the wrong direction so my 911 options are sadly very limited at the point. Regardless, I'm not interested in museum pieces so I'm driving / enjoying it and accepting that things will happen to it as I do. This year fed up with all the wet weather we have been having, I even backed off my "no rain" policy!
@limegreen , got so fed up I took it out of winter storage, put on some Porsche Spec snows. Woke up at like 3am during a big blizzard we were having to get this drive in. Wife said she was going to commit me. There is a 12 year rust warranty on these and clearly I'm in the process of teasing that out. It gets a complete cleaning every 2 weeks as I have a source who can do indoor washes in the winter.
I've been looking for a .1 GT3 (still 5yrs on the engine warranty) , and a GTS (coupe or targa) manual. Either way, going to expand my 991.1 family here in the near future. There are lots of guys with much older gens at HPDEs, and these aren't inexpensive cars.
So not to hijack the thread, my neighbor has a 997.2 C4S which he has been configuring for dedicated track use. Its a great machine with lots of tactile feedback.
Normally I'd be inclined to jones for the newest iteration (992) too SoCal C2S. However the "spooly" engine is of no interest and the shape is, well, underwhelming...
I owned 997C2S and 997.1TT manual both are fantastic driving cars. The interior of 997 seem dated, old, cheap compare to 991. Test drove the lard 991 as we used to describe it, big, fat, fake steering and ugly 991.1 design. Then I realized they were all lies, the 991 is a major leap forward compare to 997 series.
@limegreen , got so fed up I took it out of winter storage, put on some Porsche Spec snows. Woke up at like 3am during a big blizzard we were having to get this drive in. Wife said she was going to commit me. There is a 12 year rust warranty on these and clearly I'm in the process of teasing that out. It gets a complete cleaning every 2 weeks as I have a source who can do indoor washes in the winter.
I've been looking for a .1 GT3 (still 5yrs on the engine warranty) , and a GTS (coupe or targa) manual. Either way, going to expand my 991.1 family here in the near future. There are lots of guys with much older gens at HPDEs, and these aren't inexpensive cars.
So not to hijack the thread, my neighbor has a 997.2 C4S which he has been configuring for dedicated track use. Its a great machine with lots of tactile feedback.
You couldn't go wrong with either.
Cheers.
You need to get the car up to 70mph. The spoiler will help break off the rear snow build up . . . lol
Well its begun. Here is a fine example of a 911.1 going for an "INSANE" listing price, over $200,000 USD.
I don't have the corner on right, so maybe its worth that. But I don't see how it deserves such a value. Even being a manual, PTS, and with almost no road miles.
that's an outlier, limited edition of 60 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of pca...from the pca article about the release:
Porsche will give one GTS Club Coupe away to a lucky PCA member (details will be made available soon), and the other 59 will be available for purchase for $136,060 (not including $995 destination fee) by PCA members through a lottery. Applicants must fill out and submit a registration form to participate in this offer, which will be made available on PCA.org on February 1. There is no charge for the opportunity to register, and there is no obligation to purchase the vehicle. Deliveries will start in June 2015.
07-03-2019, 01:07 PM
997.2? 991.1 More Likely...
