Hurricane

Same here.

jnolan

but what I am asking for is a data-centered view on the actual risk. Whether or not we prefer one technology or another should not be the defining criteria by which we regulate what a vehicle must be equipped with. And fwiw, I actually got curious about this and research did not surface anything relevant so I am asking. I assumed people interested in this topic would have something to share... instead I get mildly attacked for even asking the question. Such is the state of critical thinking in America these days.

I asked a simple question: why ban something from new vehicles? I got answers ranging from “I squint” to “I’m a road engineer and have been complaining about this”. I would expect Mr. Road Engineer to have actual data given this is his field. I didn't even state a preference, I much prefer LED lighting but a preference should not define a regulatory approach that is going to make an already expensive durable product even more so.

hbear

Some prefer the look of the round xenon bulb inside the housing vs the LED option as well.

Valvefloat991

Data is what's needed because without it we're just guessing. For example, there's strong data indicating that stability control systems are extremely effective. They reduce single car accident fatalities by about 50%. On the other hand, ABS brakes, which work well and perform as promised, have difficulty demonstrating any proven real-world safety benefit.

As an old engineering boss of mine used to say, "Without data, you're just another opinion."

Paliknight

Changing regulation to ban Halogens was my opinion based on my own experiences and experiences of others. If any part of this conversation actually affected regulation, I’d attempt to find data to support my opinion. I think you’re taking things too personally and being a bit sensitive. No one was attacking you. We were all just stating our perspectives and our reasoning behind it. We are all aware that none of this matters because at the end of the day, us members have no effect on regulating vehicles.

And recording data for headlight efficacy is much more difficult than it seems. Most drivers that get into an accident at night will not explicitly state the reason for the accident was low visibility from the headlights. Even then, would the reason for the accident be recorded that way in official records? Was poor eye sight a factor? And so on.

Basically, when was the last time someone got into an accident in the dark and explicitly blamed their headlights regardless of whether or not they were the reason?

JW911

I have been driving HID xenon and LED cars (Porsche, BMW, Audi) exclusively for 15 years. I recently rented a Fiat in Italy. Those halogen headlights were downright scary and definitely dangerous. I was really struggling to see. Couldn't wait to get to my hotel. In my opinion LED lights are just marginally better than xenons. My 991 xenons are excellent. Barely a difference to Audi LEDs. I have never driven a Porsche with LEDs however.

Valvefloat991

That data doesn't rely on what the driver admits or even what the cops record. It depends on the accident statistics. When Mercedes introduced stability control on the E-class about 20 years ago (as I recall), the system went from unavailable on the E-class to standard across the board. The car was essentially unchanged in any other way, as were the driver demographics. When comparing the accident statistics from the last year without stability control to the first year with, the differences were striking and undeniable.

I don't know if there is a similar test car when a car model went from Halogen headlights across the board to HIDs, but if there is, that's where you would find your answer.

Paliknight

That would make more sense. I searched for a bit yesterday but couldn’t find anything on Halogen headlight statistics nor accident statistics or testing related to headlights.

The big issue with Halogens that I managed to find was when owners replaced them with HID retrofit kits. Since the car wasn’t originally designed with HIDs, adding HID kits to replace Halogen lights resulted in blinding oncoming traffic since there would be no calibration involved. The retrofitted HIDs wouldn’t correct for the greater amount of light emitted.

Im not a statistics guy though so I didn’t want to argue in that regard. The only thing I’m certain of is how much more visibility you get with HIDs and LEDs VS Halogens.

miker2019

coming from a bmw with xenons (which are excellent btw) i am very impressed with the leds in my 991.2 and would choose them again if i had a choice

however i definitely agree with nicks video above that the software in the car is limiting the discharge of the leds at times, obviously for safety reasons i guess to not blind oncoming cars

i would say if you do alot of night driving with dark highways or rural roads, the leds are fantastic... if you are mainly in urban areas with on well light roads and highways, they xenons will be more than enough

LexVan

I love my LEDs.

When I saw them in late 2013 on the Panamera, I ordered them on my 991. What sold me was the halo DRL feature. I thought it was cool and different.

The PDLS Plus is excellent for cornering with the 15 degrees of sweep. The leveling during braking and acceleration is also spot on.

The High Beam Assist works great and is very convenient.

In my prior Porsches the bi-xenons were excellent. I find the LEDs slightly better due to the functionality and styling.

The black LEDs were not available for my 2014 build, or I would have preferred those.

I'm very confident that my DRLs grab a ton of attention when out on small, curvy, country roads. I like that added visibility for oncoming car alertness.

Guards_Red_991

Couple of items to address from your post:

1- After reading my post again I couldn't find anything that would convey an attack from my part. Sorry if you felt mildly attacked.

2- Data: Please correct me if I'm wrong on the following statement: you are looking for data that conveys the actual risk of Halogen. What you are looking is "Problem is identified> data is gathered>data generates solutions" Please look for the IIHS report on headlights. It is quite interesting! link here: New ratings show most headlights need improvement

3- When insurance companies start raising primes on Halogen equipped cars people will start making what you call preference a "must" when purchasing a new car.

4- When gas tax goes up because DOT Agencies need to upgrade 50 year-old facilities due to poor sight distance people will most likely say "Why don't we upgrade headlights on cars instead? Isn't that cheaper?"

It is all about perception mate...

kage65

Also the look of the daytime running lights is different on the led's vs the xenons. Xenons have an x pattern near the center, while the leds have a pattern where the outer circle is lit up.

Bucaro

https://www.iihs.org/topics/headlights

Bob Z.

Here is a short article with some encouraging news: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...da/1475320001/

uniqueMR

Bravo. LEDs need to be standard...