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Does a 991.2 Tune really burn your warranty?

 
Old 03-14-2019, 11:59 AM
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mdr911
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Default Does a 991.2 Tune really burn your warranty?

So I've read multiple posts on this forum ranging from "Once you get the Cobb Tune your warranty is toast" to "I've had my dealer install my Cobb Tune" and "I flashed my ECU and took it in to the dealer because it was losing power and they reflashed it for me knowing I had installed a Tune". I'd love to hear from people who have actually tuned their ECU (Cobb or otherwise) and what their experience has been at the dealership. From my understanding Porsche knows that 911 owners tend to hold onto the cars, join clubs, and with all the aftermarket Tuners + RUFs / Singers of the world they embrace and promote the aftermarket players. (In addition Cobb has partnered with Porsche factory drivers for events like Pikes Peak, etc). I'm sure this all boils down to the dealer you visit, is your car messed up because of the tune you did, etc. Last question- any So Cal 911 owners know of the most local "mod-friendly" Porsche dealers?

Josh
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:37 PM
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Generally speaking, if you have engine issues caused by the tune itself, then you're liable.
Porsche NA and/or the dealer must prove that the tune or whatever after market part caused the failure to occur. They can pull information from the sensors and form a case off that.

So to answer your question, a tune won't burn your warranty unless it can be proven that it was the cause of the failure.

Depending on the dealer, they can either take the time to diagnose the issue to see if it is the tune (good case scenario) or just straight up deny warranty coverage without looking to deeply into it (worst case scenario). Partially, it's up to you to fight for your warranty coverage as you do have rights (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act).

I haven't tuned my Porsche yet, but have tuned BMWs in the past. BMW is a lot more rigid on their acceptability to tunes and mods when compared to Porsche (from my experience at least). I never had issues, but I was pretty transparent with my mods. I also was nice to my service advisers and tipped. Had my entire cooling system replaced even though I was FBO and stage 2 tuned.

So TL;DR, it depends and there's a lot of grey area. My advice is tune/mod with the expectation that you're putting your warranty at risk. If you can't handle that, then I'd suggest going OEM route.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:47 PM
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Personally, I would never consider adding anything that would or could jeopardize my vehicles warranty. Many have said that a dealer needs to prove that the aftermarket tune and or items(s) somehow caused such failure however, I wouldn't want to have a dealer or PCNA turn the tables and ask for the owner to provide evidence that it didn't. Don't say that they can't, I've working with a client with another brand of vehicle that was asked exactly that. If a vehicle is "red flagged", you won't have a warranty for "any" sort of future repair, likely devaluing ones vehicle well beyond comprehension. I've worked in the insurance industry >30 years, I've seen this happen with BMW, Mercedes and others, unless one plans on driving their P for an extended period of time, I wouldn't risk doing anything until after your warranty expires. Much of this rests on the decision of your dealer, some are very accommodating, others are just looking to stir things up. YMMV
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:51 PM
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This is my perspective if I were a dealer. Anything engine or transmission related, I would consider voided. The engine parts that deal directly with transmitting power and all the drivetrain parts connected to it are validated and warrantied to the factory power and torque levels. Go past that, and all bets are off. A shock blowing out or something electrical like a window switch or something would be completely unaffected by a tune, so should be covered by warranty. The water pump leaking which is a known common issue should still be covered. But if the engine has something internal go wrong, it would be hard to warranty that. I have read of some dealers actually installing Cobb tunes themselves, so it would be safe to assume they are more mod friendly and would be reasonable on warranty issues. I've been modding cars for like 20 years and I've always just taken the mindset of the warranty being gone for whatever part I modded. Way way back in college, I had a Nissan and went to a drag strip in Temple, Texas. One of the guys working the track also worked at the local Nissan dealer. He said, "You know, we won't cover any warranty issues if you're drag racing." So.. yeah, ha.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:53 PM
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I agree with the above, a dealer would be hard pressed not to honor warranty if the installed tune was performed by them.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:02 PM
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I have full bolt ons and stage 2 tuned. I brought in my car with CEL light and illegal deleted cats. I told them to ignore the light... Even had a cable hanging out of the OBD port and the accessport in plain view.

Not a word from the dealer and they performed warranty work... This is a low traffic dealer with a cool SA who kicks it with me at his desk and we chat for at least 30 minutes each time.

"Life is like a box of chocolates. Ya never know what you're gonna get."
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:26 PM
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This is my 3rd tuned 911. I don't over modify, I'm not looking for 900hp. I have the Cobb tune with PDK update and a Europipe exhaust. Car just drives and acts so much better than stock. Is the car quicker, yes but it is the other benefits that I really like. Quicker shift speeds, better behavior of the car when in auto as far as shift patterns and yes more giddy up. I have never had an issue with any of the tunes or the cars and never faced any issues with the dealers. Be smart and thoughtful and you should not have issues.

I understand the anxiety from some here on this forum in regards to tuning and so if you have that anxiety then tuning is not for you.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CCDD View Post
I agree with the above, a dealer would be hard pressed not to honor warranty if the installed tune was performed by them.
But it's Porsche and not your local dealership that determines whether or not the warranty will be honored. I suspect that in this case the dealer would be a strong advocate for your case, but if Porsche said no, it would be up to the dealer to eat the costs. I'm not a lawyer, but I would suspect that a strong case could be made against the dealership if the warranty were denied when they installed the tune, since it would be reasonable to suspect that an authorized Porsche dealership wouldn't do anything to your car that would void the warranty.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by spdracerut View Post
This is my perspective if I were a dealer. Anything engine or transmission related, I would consider voided. The engine parts that deal directly with transmitting power and all the drivetrain parts connected to it are validated and warrantied to the factory power and torque levels. Go past that, and all bets are off. A shock blowing out or something electrical like a window switch or something would be completely unaffected by a tune, so should be covered by warranty. The water pump leaking which is a known common issue should still be covered. But if the engine has something internal go wrong, it would be hard to warranty that. I have read of some dealers actually installing Cobb tunes themselves, so it would be safe to assume they are more mod friendly and would be reasonable on warranty issues. I've been modding cars for like 20 years and I've always just taken the mindset of the warranty being gone for whatever part I modded. Way way back in college, I had a Nissan and went to a drag strip in Temple, Texas. One of the guys working the track also worked at the local Nissan dealer. He said, "You know, we won't cover any warranty issues if you're drag racing." So.. yeah, ha.
I agree with you in principal, but you could make the case that the basic engine parts, transmissions, half-shafts, and other power transmitting parts are the same for the Carrera, Carrera S, and GTS models. So if you added 80 hp to your base Carrera and the transmission frags, you were still operating within its design limits. The internal engine parts are a bit more of a stretch because if a piston melts in a Cobb-tuned base Carrera making 450 hp, it's not clear if the tune was operating at the same ignition timing and air-fuel ratio as the equally powerful stock GTS. Similarly, a base Carrera developing GTS-level power is likely spinning it smaller, stock turbos at much higher speeds than it would at 370 hp. Therefore, it would be very hard to claim that a turbo failure was unrelated to the tune. And so on.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:52 PM
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It's all moot, if they determine some aspect of your car is not covered by their warranty because of mods you made, it would cost too much to fight Porsche's lawyers in court, regardless of whether they are right or not. Proceed at your own risk.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:19 PM
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As others said and you seem to already know it's all about your dealer.
Yes, Porsche NA makes final decisions but it's all based on dealer input.
A good dealer simply ignores the mods and gladly takes its warranty pay regardless of what you've done to the car.
A normal dealer uses common sense and will not cover things related to what you've changed.
A bad dealer denies your claim and gets you blacklisted.

​​​
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:15 PM
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It always depends on your dealer and the service manager. If you have a good relationship with them, or even talk to them about what you want to do, they will let you know where they stand on things.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by VII7 View Post
As others said and you seem to already know it's all about your dealer.
Yes, Porsche NA makes final decisions but it's all based on dealer input.
A good dealer simply ignores the mods and gladly takes its warranty pay regardless of what you've done to the car.
A normal dealer uses common sense and will not cover things related to what you've changed.
A bad dealer denies your claim and gets you blacklisted.

​​​
I believe if the dealer had that kind of power, 100% of warranty claims would be honored. A dealer just wants to be paid, and he couldn't care less if it's by Porsche or the customer.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:13 PM
  #14  
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You need a poll the below format/question is gonna get you mostly opinions not data (although one person actually chimed in with actual experience)


Originally Posted by mdr911 View Post
So I've read multiple posts on this forum ranging from "Once you get the Cobb Tune your warranty is toast" to "I've had my dealer install my Cobb Tune" and "I flashed my ECU and took it in to the dealer because it was losing power and they reflashed it for me knowing I had installed a Tune". I'd love to hear from people who have actually tuned their ECU (Cobb or otherwise) and what their experience has been at the dealership. From my understanding Porsche knows that 911 owners tend to hold onto the cars, join clubs, and with all the aftermarket Tuners + RUFs / Singers of the world they embrace and promote the aftermarket players. (In addition Cobb has partnered with Porsche factory drivers for events like Pikes Peak, etc). I'm sure this all boils down to the dealer you visit, is your car messed up because of the tune you did, etc. Last question- any So Cal 911 owners know of the most local "mod-friendly" Porsche dealers?

Josh
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
I believe if the dealer had that kind of power, 100% of warranty claims would be honored. A dealer just wants to be paid, and he couldn't care less if it's by Porsche or the customer.
They would MUCH rather you foot the bill as they charge retail customers a higher rate

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