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Battery replacement quote - does this make sense?

 
Old 12-19-2018, 09:26 AM
  #61  
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Thanks for the insight....
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Old 12-26-2018, 02:21 PM
  #62  
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just installed Varta E39 AGM battery, lower charging voltage and voltage reading before start is 12.2 now vs 11.9V on the old Porsche battery.

total cost: $184 and 15 min of my time


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Old 12-28-2018, 03:47 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by mgordon18 View Post
The battery itself is $406 and the "programming" is $390 (including battery test, charging test, and replacement labor).

"The new Porsche battery comes with a code that gets programed to a few computers to allow full communicate in the vehicle ."
At $390 labor, what are they programming for 3 hours? lol
A battery test is done with something like a Midtronics conductance tester. That takes a whole minute. And by the way, its a crappy test of a battery having worked in a government lab testing batteries and chargers. (a real capacity test takes hours to complete and the shops do not have the equipment)

And what needs to be programmed? I'd love to know what aspects of a battery's specs it needs to know.

Edited to add after doing some digging: The charge algorithm which is based on the type of battery chemistry and the Ah rating. The charge algorithm makes sense because the last thing you want to do is overcharge a VRLA battery (AGM or GEL).

Last edited by IXLR8; 12-28-2018 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 04:13 PM
  #64  
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The ICarsoft POR v2 will register a new battery to the Battery Management System. New on eBay for $150, and it will reset oil/service reminders.

https://www.icarsoft.com/Product/s-3...ft_POR_V2.html

Last edited by BusDriverBob; 01-08-2019 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:55 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by LexVan View Post
Yes. All 991s have the new AGM battery technology.
I did some research and uncovered that all 991s have VRLA batteries. I also believe that the battery is a VRLA of the EFB type (Enhanced Flooded Batteries) and that is what is stamped on my OEM battery (2015 C4S).

I keep reading about the Start-Stop system with recuperation. The only recuperation I've ever come across was on a Prius or other hybrid or electric car.

The following website provides good information on the difference between EFB and AGM. If we had an AGM battery, would that not be stamped on indicated on the battery?

https://www.rotronicsbms.com/battery...ded-batteries/
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:06 PM
  #66  
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Just got off the phone with my favorite service advisor on this topic. Learned a few things:

1. He specifically does not recommend the Porsche battery and instead sells his clients quality 3rd party batteries at lower cost.
​​​​​​2. He does recommend the software calibration service. I called in and did mention that my auto start-stop system no longer functions. He stated that once the software estimates 75% of the life ​​of the battery has passed it disables that system.
3. He said he'll ask the tech what he thinks about me bringing in an Anti Gravity lithium battery.

My car's original battery seems to still be performing okay, though I'd say there is certainly room for improvement. Voltage while running is around 14.9-15.1 and before start 11.9. Thoughts?
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:59 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by drive95 View Post
Just got off the phone with my favorite service advisor on this topic. Learned a few things:

1. He specifically does not recommend the Porsche battery and instead sells his clients quality 3rd party batteries at lower cost.
​​​​​​2. He does recommend the software calibration service. I called in and did mention that my auto start-stop system no longer functions. He stated that once the software estimates 75% of the life ​​of the battery has passed it disables that system.
3. He said he'll ask the tech what he thinks about me bringing in an Anti Gravity lithium battery.

My car's original battery seems to still be performing okay, though I'd say there is certainly room for improvement. Voltage while running is around 14.9-15.1 and before start 11.9. Thoughts?
What year is your car, and is the battery original? I don’t like the lower voltage you are stating (11.9 VDC). I would also question the higher voltage 15.1 as well. When I replaced my battery at four years when I started to notice 14.9 VDC. I personally don’t care for the auto/start/stop and don’t use it.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:04 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Sidvicious7 View Post


What year is your car, and is the battery original? I don’t like the lower voltage you are stating (11.9 VDC). I would also question the higher voltage 15.1 as well. When I replaced my battery at four years when I started to notice 14.9 VDC. I personally don’t care for the auto/start/stop and don’t use it.
2014, production 04/2014. I believe it is original...
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:03 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by GasStation View Post
I did some research and uncovered that all 991s have VRLA batteries. I also believe that the battery is a VRLA of the EFB type (Enhanced Flooded Batteries) and that is what is stamped on my OEM battery (2015 C4S).
My 2015 has the following battery. The VRLA marking is under the battery strap but the following pic has the Porsche part number (999.611.080.12) on it and shows that it is a VRLA battery and that to me means either an AGM or GEL. Likely an AGM.

I found a pic of the top of an EFB battery and it does not indicate that it is a VRLA type. VRLA by the way stands for Valve Regulated Lead Acid.




Note the circled text and part number...

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Old 02-11-2019, 05:20 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by drive95 View Post
Voltage while running is around 14.9-15.1 and before start 11.9. Thoughts?
The 14.9 to 15.1V sounds normal. I have the same indications on my Multi Information Display. Initially I thought that was high and it certainly would be for a standard flooded lead acid battery (14.4V).

But these are VRLA - AGM batteries and if you go to the Banner battery site and download their tech page that call for 14.8V at standard temperature of 25C or 77F. Voltages increase as the temperature decreases and vice versa.

Plus you have to look at "where" that voltage is measured; at the alternator which is at the back of the car or at the battery in the front. You can easily lose 0.1V or more just at the battery coming from the alternator.

Your 11.9V is too low if that was an open circuit voltage, meaning no loads are on...everything is off in the vehicle.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:20 PM
  #71  
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[QUOTE=drive95;15631493]2014, production 04/2014. I believe it is original...[/QUOTE
Rather than guess if your car battery is good/bad the best way to confirm this is by having the battery tested.

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Old 02-11-2019, 09:49 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Sidvicious7 View Post
Rather than guess if your car battery is good/bad the best way to confirm this is by having the battery tested.
I wonder how well it works considering a load test is done at 1/2 the CCA for 15 seconds. I wonder how the numbers would compare.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:53 PM
  #73  
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My powered-off voltage was read with the radio on and fan blower operating.

I'll consider bringing it to Batteries Plus for a battery test... though I don't think I want to take it out of the car without a tender for an extended period.

Going to contact Anti Gravity batteries to see if they have a recommendation for what to select in PIWIS during a battery calibration reset. Considering dropping the coin for one of theirs
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:33 PM
  #74  
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VRLA batteries include the sub-groups: AGM, SLA, EFB, GEL. They are all VRLA batteries. They are all sealed and necessitate safety valves.

Below, I cut and pasted a paragraph from a Porsche European parts provider with interesting information on the OEM Banner battery. The part I find interesting concerns the information about “braking energy recuperation”. Does a non-hybrid 991 have braking energy recuperation? If it does, then accordingly an AGM battery would be fitted. If not, then an EFB (Enhanced Flooded Battery - fancy Euro name for sealed battery) would be fitted.

Have a read through this link: https://www.design911.com/Car-Batter...EM/prod132885/


For vehicles fitted with or without an engine start/stop function, in order to achieve the CO2 limitation targets set by the EU by means of sustained fuel consumption savings and emission reductions. In general, two differing starter battery types are employed in these environment-friendly vehicles, consisting of the absorbent glass mat (AGM) and the enhanced flooded battery (EFB) systems. The use of the appropriate technology depends largely on the fuel and CO2 savings that can be attained. Above all, AGM batteries are utilised for start/stop systems with braking energy recuperation in mid-range and premium class vehicles.

I am open to any additional knowledge on the matter. Feel free to post.

Gas
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:48 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by GasStation View Post
VRLA batteries include the sub-groups: AGM, SLA, EFB, GEL. They are all VRLA batteries. They are all sealed and necessitate safety valves.

Below, I cut and pasted a paragraph from a Porsche European parts provider with interesting information on the OEM Banner battery. The part I find interesting concerns the information about “braking energy recuperation”. Does a non-hybrid 991 have braking energy recuperation? If it does, then accordingly an AGM battery would be fitted. If not, then an EFB (Enhanced Flooded Battery - fancy Euro name for sealed battery) would be fitted.

Have a read through this link: https://www.design911.com/Car-Batter...EM/prod132885/


For vehicles fitted with or without an engine start/stop function, in order to achieve the CO2 limitation targets set by the EU by means of sustained fuel consumption savings and emission reductions. In general, two differing starter battery types are employed in these environment-friendly vehicles, consisting of the absorbent glass mat (AGM) and the enhanced flooded battery (EFB) systems. The use of the appropriate technology depends largely on the fuel and CO2 savings that can be attained. Above all, AGM batteries are utilised for start/stop systems with braking energy recuperation in mid-range and premium class vehicles.

I am open to any additional knowledge on the matter. Feel free to post.

Gas
Found the answer to the "braking energy recuperation" theory in the Banner website FAQ. Now it is just a matter of confirming that the 991 alternator acts as described below.

Quite simply, brake energy recovery.
When you accelerate or brake, some of your car's kinetic energy is usually lost. Part of this energy is recovered through recuperation.
This is because the alternator (also called generator) intentionally puts more strain on it in this phase, the voltage of the alternator is raised so that the charging process is accelerated and thus more energy is supplied to the battery. The alternator converts the kinetic energy into electricity, in principle like a bicycle dynamo. In acceleration phases and in normal operation, the output of the alternator can be partially reduced or even set to zero, which means more energy is available for the drive.
The reason: The vehicle now uses the energy that the battery has previously stored. This saves fuel and emissions. Because Banner Running Bull series start-stop car batteries are real CO2 and fuel savers.
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