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P0 Hardness Colder Temps

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Old Oct 27, 2018 | 09:19 AM
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Default P0 Hardness Colder Temps

Is it just me or do the ride on the P0’s seem noticeably harsher as the tempature drops? They were smooth during the summer even at regular pressures, but as the temps (<50) drop seem to ride pretty harshly even at comfort pressures. When I picked the car up in early spring I noticed the same thing but attributed it to new tires. Do the Michelin’s have the same characteristics?
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Old Oct 27, 2018 | 10:18 AM
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It's not just you. For me the limit on driving on high performance summer tires is around 45 degrees. After that they seem to get too slippery, especially on older smoother asphalt, It makes sense that by 50 degrees you'd be feeling the changes.

This was especially true for the N0 P-Zeros I had on the prior car, I haven't tried it on the newer N1s. I stayed with that when I switched to Michelin P4S's on the prior car. Fortunately it's not too much of a problem for me in Texas. Here are a couple of statements from our good friends at Tire Rack on the subject.

"As ambient temperatures get colder, typically in the 40-45° Fahrenheit range, summer performance tires lose a noticeable percentage of traction as their tread compound rubber properties change from a pliable elastic to inflexible plastic."

And even on the web page for the P4S and other similar tires: Note: "Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle."

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=273
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S

Last edited by StormRune; Oct 27, 2018 at 10:55 AM.
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Old Oct 27, 2018 | 10:21 AM
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Its the summer rubber, not the brand.
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Old Oct 27, 2018 | 10:31 AM
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Wow, good info. Guess I won’t be taking the car for a winter spin even if roads clear and dry 😳, and will take it easy in the late fall temps.
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Old Oct 27, 2018 | 10:40 AM
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Pzeros are worse but any summer tires are not good once temps drop. Makes tires hard and slick and dangerous when temps are cold.
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Old Oct 27, 2018 | 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Penn4S
Pzeros are worse but any summer tires are not good once temps drop. Makes tires hard and slick and dangerous when temps are cold.
OK, get cold, but would think once tires are warmed up (>3psi over k) a warmed tire is a warmed up tire for purposes of normal driving. ?
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Old Oct 27, 2018 | 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Nm2far


OK, get cold, but would think once tires are warmed up (>3psi over k) a warmed tire is a warmed up tire for purposes of normal driving. ?
You can answer your own question. But, I'd suggest you do it in a large empty parking lot. When temps are <40F do some spirited cornering. You'll find out why the old 911's were known as widow-makers. Actually this can be fun and gives you a chance to learn the handling dynamics of your car.
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Old Oct 28, 2018 | 07:34 PM
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Pirelli's tire warranty card explains that cold temps can damage the tire as well: "Rubber compounds formulated for ultra-high performance summer tires can lose flexibility and may develop random surface cracks at temperatures below 45 F. Therefore extra care should be used in handling tires below this temperature. . . ."
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Old Oct 28, 2018 | 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Nm2far


OK, get cold, but would think once tires are warmed up (>3psi over k) a warmed tire is a warmed up tire for purposes of normal driving. ?
Are you trying to convince me or yourself that it’s a good idea. Go for it. But let me know when you’re out there.
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Old Oct 28, 2018 | 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Penn4S


Are you trying to convince me or yourself that it’s a good idea. Go for it. But let me know when you’re out there.
No, it’s been an a good discussion and very informative
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Old Oct 29, 2018 | 12:04 AM
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Be careful. I drive mine into November here is Pa. Some mornings it's already in the low 40's. I already can feel a difference in driving between early morning and heading home with the temps in the low 50's.
Not worth getting hurt for a set of tires.
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Old Oct 29, 2018 | 12:16 AM
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I guess this means no winter drives even if the roads are clear
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Old Oct 29, 2018 | 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Nm2far
I guess this means no winter drives even if the roads are clear
Winter tires = winter drives
Mine go on this week, no need to let cold weather stop the fun.
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Old Oct 29, 2018 | 08:18 AM
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Eric is right. Winter tires are the way to go. When the weather dips into the 30's and 20's it's just not worth the risk with summer spec tires.
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Old Oct 29, 2018 | 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Nm2far
Is it just me or do the ride on the P0’s seem noticeably harsher as the tempature drops? They were smooth during the summer even at regular pressures, but as the temps (<50) drop seem to ride pretty harshly even at comfort pressures. When I picked the car up in early spring I noticed the same thing but attributed it to new tires. Do the Michelin’s have the same characteristics?

The Pirelli tires are the WORST summer tires I've ever experienced when the temps drop. I've had a ton of cars on different summer tires in the Chicago area and usually can make it until ~Thanksgiving to put my winter rubber on.

The AMs are cold, then it warms up - the Pirellis are completely useless.

My car got it's winter rubber this weekend.

All summer tires get bad but the Pirellis get even worse.
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