PCCB Rant
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Joined: Jun 2017
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From: Phoenix AZ
PCCB Rant
I know this topic has been beaten to death but I am delayed waiting for a flight and just wanted to vent a little and ask questions about atrocious PCCB rotor durability.
Background: I purchased a 2014 carrera 4S with 4 k miles ,SPASM, PDCC,manual in 2015 with no mods. I began as a novice hpde participant that year and made sure to follow a religious maintenance schedule including frequent brake fluid flushes and 2 brake fluid changes per season with Motul or SRF. I changed pads using OEM when pads were nearing 50% thickness a total of 3 times.
I have total of 20 track days. Mostly slower technical courses like putnam park, autobahn CC and black hawk farms. I did do a total of 10 days at RA and Indy as an intermediate driver. I am currently at 29k miles and the rotors are no longer useful for my purposes. Still drivable on the street but getting light and showing scoring and delamination spots. The wear is worse on the fronts, the rears are just OK.
What concerns me, is that most of the mileage occured as a beginner/intermediate driver when I was basically a moving pylon! When I progressed into the advanced run groups and last year became a PCA instructor I switched to driving a spyder and a cayman and the 911 had only 4 days in 2017 and 1 this year. My question to Porsche is how did your vaunted system fail while being driven by a noob. Based on how I drove I imagine that cars in germany, thundering down the autobahn, experience far more powerful braking events than what I could ever have made. Do those brakes poop out in 30k miles?
In the end I did what many have done and switched to iron. I just can’t shake the feeling that there is more to this rotor wear issue than Porsche is letting on. I totally understand toasting your rotors when running advanced/instructor groups but I really do not feel that my car was exposed to that heavy track use for the majority of its life. Does any one else feel like they never really pushed their rotors and still wore them out?
Ultimately I still love the cars and will continue to buy and run the hell out of them....just he a little wiser!
Thanks for listening!
Background: I purchased a 2014 carrera 4S with 4 k miles ,SPASM, PDCC,manual in 2015 with no mods. I began as a novice hpde participant that year and made sure to follow a religious maintenance schedule including frequent brake fluid flushes and 2 brake fluid changes per season with Motul or SRF. I changed pads using OEM when pads were nearing 50% thickness a total of 3 times.
I have total of 20 track days. Mostly slower technical courses like putnam park, autobahn CC and black hawk farms. I did do a total of 10 days at RA and Indy as an intermediate driver. I am currently at 29k miles and the rotors are no longer useful for my purposes. Still drivable on the street but getting light and showing scoring and delamination spots. The wear is worse on the fronts, the rears are just OK.
What concerns me, is that most of the mileage occured as a beginner/intermediate driver when I was basically a moving pylon! When I progressed into the advanced run groups and last year became a PCA instructor I switched to driving a spyder and a cayman and the 911 had only 4 days in 2017 and 1 this year. My question to Porsche is how did your vaunted system fail while being driven by a noob. Based on how I drove I imagine that cars in germany, thundering down the autobahn, experience far more powerful braking events than what I could ever have made. Do those brakes poop out in 30k miles?
In the end I did what many have done and switched to iron. I just can’t shake the feeling that there is more to this rotor wear issue than Porsche is letting on. I totally understand toasting your rotors when running advanced/instructor groups but I really do not feel that my car was exposed to that heavy track use for the majority of its life. Does any one else feel like they never really pushed their rotors and still wore them out?
Ultimately I still love the cars and will continue to buy and run the hell out of them....just he a little wiser!
Thanks for listening!
RL Community Team
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How are determining that your rotors are worn? Did you have a density test done with the Carboteq? This is the only way to measure wear on the PCCB rotors.
If so, what were the measurements? And did you get the rotors measured before you purchased the car used?
Also, "noobs" are usually harder on brakes than non-noobs.
If so, what were the measurements? And did you get the rotors measured before you purchased the car used?
Also, "noobs" are usually harder on brakes than non-noobs.
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Joined: Jun 2017
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From: Phoenix AZ
Not really complaining just passing the time waiting for a flight. My previous post was cut short. I am not familiar with density being a measurement. I am aware that percentage of weight loss from carbon fiber attrition is a sensitive measure.
Per the factory guidelines using a combination of visual markers, roughness scale and the dimpling and depression of the 3 wear markers, my tech suggested no heavy useage until the rotors are poperly weighed. The machine is currently being calibrated so hopefully will know soon. Too my untrained eye there are multiple wear areas where the normal greyish surface is burnished a rough coppery color and has a palbable rough texture compared to surrounding surfaces
Per the factory guidelines using a combination of visual markers, roughness scale and the dimpling and depression of the 3 wear markers, my tech suggested no heavy useage until the rotors are poperly weighed. The machine is currently being calibrated so hopefully will know soon. Too my untrained eye there are multiple wear areas where the normal greyish surface is burnished a rough coppery color and has a palbable rough texture compared to surrounding surfaces
RL Community Team
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Not really complaining just passing the time waiting for a flight. My previous post was cut short. I am not familiar with density being a measurement. I am aware that percentage of weight loss from carbon fiber attrition is a sensitive measure.
Per the factory guidelines using a combination of visual markers, roughness scale and the dimpling and depression of the 3 wear markers, my tech suggested no heavy useage until the rotors are poperly weighed. The machine is currently being calibrated so hopefully will know soon. Too my untrained eye there are multiple wear areas where the normal greyish surface is burnished a rough coppery color and has a palbable rough texture compared to surrounding surfaces
Per the factory guidelines using a combination of visual markers, roughness scale and the dimpling and depression of the 3 wear markers, my tech suggested no heavy useage until the rotors are poperly weighed. The machine is currently being calibrated so hopefully will know soon. Too my untrained eye there are multiple wear areas where the normal greyish surface is burnished a rough coppery color and has a palbable rough texture compared to surrounding surfaces
Your dealer should know this, as Porsche dealers all have this tool.
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From: SF Bay Area
Does your car have PTV? I think it does in which case the car is applying braking to one wheel in a hard, aggressive turn (inside wheel I believe) even when you’re not in the brake pedal so brake wear and use can be more than you think.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: NYC <> Boston
Not saying OP isn't having issues with the pccbs but rant seems premature until the rotor wear has actually been measured (correctly) which is with the carboteq tool on rotors OFF the car.
Pro
Joined: May 2018
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Sounds like its getting a lot of track use, yet not really...seems early for the rotors to be done. Nonetheless, you must accept that driving hard on a track will cause much faster wear...being mad that consumable parts don't last as long as you think they should is kinda counterintuitive. Porsche sells these as street cars. I don't think they ever tested or claimed PCCB will last forever on a racetrack. Its kinda like it takes days to wear out tires on a track instead of years. Maybe its how you drive off the track too.
Maybe swap them out for cheaper steel ones?
Maybe swap them out for cheaper steel ones?
Last edited by minthral; Aug 4, 2018 at 05:10 PM.
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2013
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From: Austin, TX
When I was previously shopping the dealer had a car with mileage in the mid teens and PCCBs. I knew the salesperson pretty well since this was the third car I was going to buy from them. They told me that amazingly they had to replace the PCCBs on the car as part of the CPO (at great expense as you know!) and assumed it must have been tracked heavily. I guess that even with that evidence the CPO was still technically passable... but I quickly took that one off my radar!
