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Powerband 991.1 N/A

Old 04-19-2018, 05:52 AM
  #46  
K-A
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Between .1 and .2 Carreras, the differences are far more taste oriented than fundamental performance. Between exactly equally equipped .1 and .2 base cars (i.e vert manual vs vert manual or coupe PDK with Sport + vs coupe PDK with Sport +) the difference in 1/4 mile trap speed is “only” about 3-4 MPH. Hardly anything nearing a massive difference. Same goes for 0-60 (a few or so tenths). A .1 Carrera S ran a 7:37 on the Ring back in 2011 or 2012, while the .2 Carrera S’s best Ring time is a 7:34. A Cayman GT4 which is slower than a .1 Carrera S was driven by the same driver in the .2 S that turned a 7:34, itself turned a 7:41. That’s not even a big difference and it’s a manual N/A Cayman vs the .2’s TT PDK with Sport Chrono.

Moral of the story is, don’t let yourself feel your car is “underpowered” because someone with a .2 tries to come here and tell you so because they prefer the turbo power delivery. The cars are far more alike in all out statistics than they are different. The differences in real world and even remotely legal driving mostly reside in what formula makes your SOTP feel faster. I think the RPM crescendo and on-cam rush makes my car feel faster than .2 base cars I’ve driven. Some will feel otherwise. Results, as always, vary.
Old 04-19-2018, 07:17 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Bemo
Since when is revving an NA motor a chore?
Exactly, rowing the gears on a manual NA 911 is bliss...
Old 04-19-2018, 07:54 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by K-A
Between .1 and .2 Carreras, the differences are far more taste oriented than fundamental performance.
The differences are well reported and documented. There is little point comparing a time generated by Timo Kluck (Porsche works driver) with one generated by Chris Gebhardt (a Sport Auto journalist) its completely unrealistic.


Times - Vbox.

Note the position of the 991.1 C Vs 991.2 C - the performance differences are substantial. This is well recognised and to be frank, the topic has been beaten to death. Little point going back to square one.

The 991.1 is very enjoyable as is the 9A1 per se - enjoy it for what it is and what it offers.

Last edited by RRDnA; 04-19-2018 at 08:16 AM.
Old 04-19-2018, 12:06 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by K-A
AGREED. Way too tall gearing. Hitting 80 in 2nd gear is ridiculous.






What will help much better is not street racing like a 16 year old in the year 2001 when Fast & Furious came out.



[Yawn]
I'd love to see someone develop a gearing solution. It was a popular mod on S2000's.

And hey, I was *17* when that movie came out 😁
Old 04-19-2018, 01:00 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by koala

And hey, I was *17* when that movie came out 😁
I didn't realize there were so many old timers here...
Old 04-19-2018, 03:53 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by eyebrakel8
So many typing about Nm on the new turbocharger engine. In my country this debate is always about fastest to 100km but then if Nm is what is desired higher than horse powers then we say why no sport cars with diesel since diesel make more Nm than petrol. We likes petrol in sports cars because good engines fit the car and are more than the sum of horse powers and newton metre.
Agreed. Torque was never what especially Porsche sports cars was about. I always went to pony cars for that, and find it humorous how some in 911 land treat torque as some new discovery since the charm and legend of 911’s outside of the Turbo was always due to its unique lack of torque powerplant outshining all the torquey cars around it. HP is also far more important to all out performance as evidenced by the relatively near performance figures .1 and .2’s put out (a few to several tenths or MPH at the limit is fairly negligible to me). I’ll sacrifice a few tenths here or there for a more visceral experience every time, especially since I don’t nor won’t ever push my car to its limit.

Originally Posted by koala
I'd love to see someone develop a gearing solution. It was a popular mod on S2000's.

And hey, I was *17* when that movie came out 😁
LOL. Being a teen when that movie came out and living your life one quarter mile at a time like a street racing dunce? Nah, I know nothing about that. Nothing I tell you.

Last edited by K-A; 04-19-2018 at 04:14 PM.
Old 04-19-2018, 04:02 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by K-A
AGREED. Way too tall gearing. Hitting 80 in 2nd gear is ridiculous.




Nor the sound. GT2's, beastly as they are, sound awful. Surprising to me how even on that model, Porsche can't seem to get the soundtrack right.



What will help much better is not street racing like a 16 year old in the year 2001 when Fast & Furious came out.



[Yawn]
Porsches need to be driven above 4k or else you might as well go drive a camry. The people who buy Porsches and drive around below 4k rpm are never in the power band. Of course you can hit 100hp in 6th gear at 3k rpm but that's not the meaning of the high rev flat six engine.
Old 04-19-2018, 04:13 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by s4one
Porsches need to be driven above 4k or else you might as well go drive a camry. The people who buy Porsches and drive around below 4k rpm are never in the power band. Of course you can hit 100hp in 6th gear at 3k rpm but that's not the meaning of the high rev flat six engine.
Absolutely. I personally don’t get WHY someone would want to drive this car under 4K during fun-drives. The fact that it would make “plenty of power” under there is a negative to me. When I’m driving in a public space for fun or “art,” I don’t look for max numbers (I look the opposite way). I like revving it out because that’s when you hear the glorious atmospheric wail (the most important element of enthusiast public driving for me). That’s the entire point of a 911 to me. My car already has enough power to make revving it out while not getting to ludicrous speeds a frustrating ordeal. Last thing I want is enough torque at 2K RPM’s to make revving it uninspiring and unnecessary and too dangerous (and not musical).

*To me* the .2’s inspired more lazy driving. I didn’t need to explore and master the car as much as I do my .1, which provides more of a lively challenge and reward to me. That’s what it’s all about.

Which is why, to me, the differences between .1 and .2 are more taste oriented. And why it’s worth noting to .2 guys who’ll come into a thread extolling the virtues of the .1 powerband with “but torque from 0 RPM,” that that’s actually antithesis to what many of us here are looking for, hence the very subject matter.
Old 04-19-2018, 05:33 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by K-A


Absolutely. I personally don’t get WHY someone would want to drive this car under 4K during fun-drives. The fact that it would make “plenty of power” under there is a negative to me. When I’m driving in a public space for fun or “art,” I don’t look for max numbers (I look the opposite way). I like revving it out because that’s when you hear the glorious atmospheric wail (the most important element of enthusiast public driving for me). That’s the entire point of a 911 to me. My car already has enough power to make revving it out while not getting to ludicrous speeds a frustrating ordeal. Last thing I want is enough torque at 2K RPM’s to make revving it uninspiring and unnecessary and too dangerous (and not musical).

*To me* the .2’s inspired more lazy driving. I didn’t need to explore and master the car as much as I do my .1, which provides more of a lively challenge and reward to me. That’s what it’s all about.

Which is why, to me, the differences between .1 and .2 are more taste oriented. And why it’s worth noting to .2 guys who’ll come into a thread extolling the virtues of the .1 powerband with “but torque from 0 RPM,” that that’s actually antithesis to what many of us here are looking for, hence the very subject matter.
A perfect way to put it, I agree. A lazy way of driving is pretty much driving under 4K rpm a is not fun. It takes a lot of work to keep it in high RPM, especially if the car is a stick shift.
Old 04-19-2018, 06:51 PM
  #55  
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So per graph the 991.1S is not 400hp.
Old 04-19-2018, 09:08 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by tse
Exactly, rowing the gears on a manual NA 911 is bliss...
Ahh my Canadian friend chimes in. Are you thawed out yet? Row all you want. I like pushing buttons
Old 04-19-2018, 09:40 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by s4one
A perfect way to put it, I agree. A lazy way of driving is pretty much driving under 4K rpm a is not fun. It takes a lot of work to keep it in high RPM, especially if the car is a stick shift.
Old 04-20-2018, 02:35 AM
  #58  
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On .1 vs .2 it’s nice how both come in different horsepower levels so whether you enjoy the turbo torque of .2 or progressive NA build of .1 you can find the right car that’s the right speed for your personal tastes.

Back on topic, I love how the NA motors build and progress through different sounds as they rev. I like to start at like 3k on a straight road in 2nd or something and go all the way to redline (even though downshifting would obviously be faster) just to enjoy the crescendo throughout the range.
Old 04-20-2018, 03:22 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Dewinator
On .1 vs .2 it’s nice how both come in different horsepower levels so whether you enjoy the turbo torque of .2 or progressive NA build of .1 you can find the right car that’s the right speed for your personal tastes.

Back on topic, I love how the NA motors build and progress through different sounds as they rev. I like to start at like 3k on a straight road in 2nd or something and go all the way to redline (even though downshifting would obviously be faster) just to enjoy the crescendo throughout the range.
I know exactly what you mean. Being in one gear too high (so the sound is slightly more drawn out instead of a rapid build) with the revs at around 3-4K gives off an extremely riveting sound. It's the deepest note within the rev range, sounds brutal with my X Pipe, and then as it climbs higher the sound gets more high pitched and screamy. I absolutely love how dynamic the sound wave is on this car, every quarter of the linear powerband has its own auditory character.
Old 04-20-2018, 07:36 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by K-A
..... and then as it climbs higher the sound gets more high pitched and screamy..
And scary ..vvvrom. haha

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