Reasons to buy base Carrera instead of the S
01-16-2018, 11:55 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
To some maybe. I could afford any modern new Porsche but I wanted the Base engine. I really didn't want all that extra HP for the street - a difference that you can barely feel anyway from the Base to the S (at least in the 991.2). The Turbo S is a beast but is miserable to drive on the street - you really can't have any fun with that car unless you are on the autobahn. I did a lot of research into my 911 to make sure I knew what I was getting, I flew down to PEC-ATL to drive the new turbos on the track and listened to them from a bystanders position. If I lived in the mountains or tracked my car, I would want a lot more HP. If I was tracking my car, I probably wouldn't even buy a Porsche. It would have to be a mid-engine car.
I'd pay more for a manual over a pdk. For the street, I would also pay more for LESS hp than an S and pay extra for shorter gears. (I'm a manual guy).
The better brakes of the S are totally irrelevant for the street - we are limited by the grip of our tires not by the size of our calipers or number of pistons. I will caveat this statement assuming you don't drive your car in the mountains or a track. I also didn't want red or yellow calipers to mess up the visual of my black wheels.
I agree that I wanted S options like SPASM that were not available on the Base model. I even approached Porsche exclusive and PAG to try to get SPASM added on a base....but nope was the answer. They want you to step up to the S to get those options.
I think for the first time in Porsche's history, the Base Carrera is the car to get over the S for the 991.2.
Just one man's opinion of course.
I'd pay more for a manual over a pdk. For the street, I would also pay more for LESS hp than an S and pay extra for shorter gears. (I'm a manual guy).
The better brakes of the S are totally irrelevant for the street - we are limited by the grip of our tires not by the size of our calipers or number of pistons. I will caveat this statement assuming you don't drive your car in the mountains or a track. I also didn't want red or yellow calipers to mess up the visual of my black wheels.
I agree that I wanted S options like SPASM that were not available on the Base model. I even approached Porsche exclusive and PAG to try to get SPASM added on a base....but nope was the answer. They want you to step up to the S to get those options.
I think for the first time in Porsche's history, the Base Carrera is the car to get over the S for the 991.2.
Just one man's opinion of course.
01-17-2018, 12:05 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
The only appeal the S held over the standard Carrera for me was better brakes and the possibility to get SPASM. Skipping the S paid for PCCB and 20s with $4k left for other interesting options.
And I just kept remembering how much FUN I had in the base 991.2 on this old rally stage, closed to the public for the day.
https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
That 500-hp GT3 RS would have left the "370-hp" Carrera for dead on a race track, but the high-strung 4.0 had nothing for the twin-turbo 3.0 on a curvy uphill road—and not much on the way back down, either. And yes, the brakes did start smelling—and I am sure they weren't his!
And I just kept remembering how much FUN I had in the base 991.2 on this old rally stage, closed to the public for the day.
https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
That 500-hp GT3 RS would have left the "370-hp" Carrera for dead on a race track, but the high-strung 4.0 had nothing for the twin-turbo 3.0 on a curvy uphill road—and not much on the way back down, either. And yes, the brakes did start smelling—and I am sure they weren't his!
Last edited by stout; 01-17-2018 at 02:14 AM.
01-17-2018, 01:30 PM
#48
Drifting
To some maybe. I could afford any modern new Porsche but I wanted the Base engine. I really didn't want all that extra HP for the street - a difference that you can barely feel anyway from the Base to the S (at least in the 991.2). The Turbo S is a beast but is miserable to drive on the street - you really can't have any fun with that car unless you are on the autobahn. I did a lot of research into my 911 to make sure I knew what I was getting, I flew down to PEC-ATL to drive the new turbos on the track and listened to them from a bystanders position. If I lived in the mountains or tracked my car, I would want a lot more HP. If I was tracking my car, I probably wouldn't even buy a Porsche. It would have to be a mid-engine car.
I'd pay more for a manual over a pdk. For the street, I would also pay more for LESS hp than an S and pay extra for shorter gears. (I'm a manual guy).
The better brakes of the S are totally irrelevant for the street - we are limited by the grip of our tires not by the size of our calipers or number of pistons. I will caveat this statement assuming you don't drive your car in the mountains or a track. I also didn't want red or yellow calipers to mess up the visual of my black wheels.
I agree that I wanted S options like SPASM that were not available on the Base model. I even approached Porsche exclusive and PAG to try to get SPASM added on a base....but nope was the answer. They want you to step up to the S to get those options.
I think for the first time in Porsche's history, the Base Carrera is the car to get over the S for the 991.2.
Just one man's opinion of course.
I'd pay more for a manual over a pdk. For the street, I would also pay more for LESS hp than an S and pay extra for shorter gears. (I'm a manual guy).
The better brakes of the S are totally irrelevant for the street - we are limited by the grip of our tires not by the size of our calipers or number of pistons. I will caveat this statement assuming you don't drive your car in the mountains or a track. I also didn't want red or yellow calipers to mess up the visual of my black wheels.
I agree that I wanted S options like SPASM that were not available on the Base model. I even approached Porsche exclusive and PAG to try to get SPASM added on a base....but nope was the answer. They want you to step up to the S to get those options.
I think for the first time in Porsche's history, the Base Carrera is the car to get over the S for the 991.2.
Just one man's opinion of course.
Base 991.2 C2 with the nice sporty bits/options.
01-17-2018, 01:48 PM
#49
Drifting
The only appeal the S held over the standard Carrera for me was better brakes and the possibility to get SPASM. Skipping the S paid for PCCB and 20s with $4k left for other interesting options.
And I just kept remembering how much FUN I had in the base 991.2 on this old rally stage, closed to the public for the day.
https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
That 500-hp GT3 RS would have left the "370-hp" Carrera for dead on a race track, but the high-strung 4.0 had nothing for the twin-turbo 3.0 on a curvy uphill road—and not much on the way back down, either. And yes, the brakes did start smelling—and I am sure they weren't his!
And I just kept remembering how much FUN I had in the base 991.2 on this old rally stage, closed to the public for the day.
https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
That 500-hp GT3 RS would have left the "370-hp" Carrera for dead on a race track, but the high-strung 4.0 had nothing for the twin-turbo 3.0 on a curvy uphill road—and not much on the way back down, either. And yes, the brakes did start smelling—and I am sure they weren't his!
Pete, great review of the 991.2 Carrera and Carrera S. Sounds like my T should be a peach with SPASM, PSE, SC, LSD, 20" wheels and the 7-speed manual transmission etc!
Have to say, I do love the Miami Blue!
Love the video! What a driving opportunity! (Reminded me slightly of a blast around the Yorkshire Dales with a dozen 991s!). How hard was the driver of that 991.1 GT3 RS trying...?!
Have to say, I do love the Miami Blue!
Love the video! What a driving opportunity! (Reminded me slightly of a blast around the Yorkshire Dales with a dozen 991s!). How hard was the driver of that 991.1 GT3 RS trying...?!
01-17-2018, 02:06 PM
#50
I totally disagree with that. It doesn't take a good driver to put the foot down all the way on a flat, open stretch of road. And it feels really good to do that in a car with a lot of power. A lot better than in a car with less power. Even the S felt too down on power for me (also I didn't like the power delivery, the base may actually be better in that regard.) My GTS is better but could definitely be faster. I love the feeling of having a powerful engine when the time is right to use it!
01-17-2018, 02:41 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
Pete, great review of the 991.2 Carrera and Carrera S. Sounds like my T should be a peach with SPASM, PSE, SC, LSD, 20" wheels and the 7-speed manual transmission etc!
Have to say, I do love the Miami Blue!
Love the video! What a driving opportunity! (Reminded me slightly of a blast around the Yorkshire Dales with a dozen 991s!). How hard was the driver of that 991.1 GT3 RS trying...?!
Have to say, I do love the Miami Blue!
Love the video! What a driving opportunity! (Reminded me slightly of a blast around the Yorkshire Dales with a dozen 991s!). How hard was the driver of that 991.1 GT3 RS trying...?!
As for the RS driver? Well, it's hard to see it in the video, but I was watching the RS's back end bob as its rear tires searched for grip. If you look really closely, you can see it in the video, but it's nowhere near as obvious as it was in person. My take: He was on the edge coming out of several turns, scrabbling for traction—so I don't think there was much more in that RS, and I believe he was pushing the RS harder than I was pushing the Carrera. What's more, he knew the course (having been up and down it repeatedly) where I had only seen it once, from the passenger seat. The telling moments in the video come when Harley says "He just put the radio down" (I've been in 918s and RSs while factory instructors drifted the car one-handed and using their other hand to bark orders into a walkie talkie), and then the guy's voice at the top and bottom of the hill about the driving. I don't think he was expecting a Carrera to keep up. I wasn't either. He is definitely the better driver, and had several advantages (knowing the road, PDK, R-compound tires, etc) but also one key disadvantage: Not much in the way or torque out of the bends. When people think the .2 Carrera isn't a game-changer, I point them to this video. But to me, the key wasn't the new car's speed—shocking as it was. It was the enthusiasm heard in both Harley's and my voice. There haven't been that many Porsches that I had that much fun in on a press trip. The 987.2 Boxster Spyder comes to mind. A few others, but not many...
And yes, you are going to LOVE your T.
01-17-2018, 02:45 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Something missing in this discussion that I alluded to in my earlier post. The base Carrera is my pick of the bunch as well but it is almost impossible to get an allocation (especially if you want a C4). When I placed my order for my C4S, there were five C4s in the whole country (US). All PDKs. Porsche makes a great base car but not many of them. They and the dealers want to sell more S and pricier 911s. My local dealer has 11, 911s and only one C4 convertible. Another big dealer has a bunch of 911s but only 3 base Carreras. The rest are S and GTS models. And mostly all PDKs.
My sales person also told me that he was finding it hard to get allocations for rwd base Carreras as well. If one is willing to buy off the lot, then one can choose from a small selection of cars.
My sales person also told me that he was finding it hard to get allocations for rwd base Carreras as well. If one is willing to buy off the lot, then one can choose from a small selection of cars.
01-17-2018, 03:00 PM
#53
Drifting
Cheers, Pete! My Carrera T can't arrive soon enough!
By any chance, have you written a review or filmed a video on the 991.2 Carrera T?
By any chance, have you written a review or filmed a video on the 991.2 Carrera T?
01-17-2018, 03:02 PM
#54
Drifting
Something missing in this discussion that I alluded to in my earlier post. The base Carrera is my pick of the bunch as well but it is almost impossible to get an allocation (especially if you want a C4). When I placed my order for my C4S, there were five C4s in the whole country (US). All PDKs. Porsche makes a great base car but not many of them. They and the dealers want to sell more S and pricier 911s. My local dealer has 11, 911s and only one C4 convertible. Another big dealer has a bunch of 911s but only 3 base Carreras. The rest are S and GTS models. And mostly all PDKs.
My sales person also told me that he was finding it hard to get allocations for rwd base Carreras as well. If one is willing to buy off the lot, then one can choose from a small selection of cars.
My sales person also told me that he was finding it hard to get allocations for rwd base Carreras as well. If one is willing to buy off the lot, then one can choose from a small selection of cars.
01-17-2018, 03:30 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
Something missing in this discussion that I alluded to in my earlier post. The base Carrera is my pick of the bunch as well but it is almost impossible to get an allocation (especially if you want a C4). When I placed my order for my C4S, there were five C4s in the whole country (US). All PDKs. Porsche makes a great base car but not many of them. They and the dealers want to sell more S and pricier 911s. My local dealer has 11, 911s and only one C4 convertible. Another big dealer has a bunch of 911s but only 3 base Carreras. The rest are S and GTS models. And mostly all PDKs.
My sales person also told me that he was finding it hard to get allocations for rwd base Carreras as well. If one is willing to buy off the lot, then one can choose from a small selection of cars.
My sales person also told me that he was finding it hard to get allocations for rwd base Carreras as well. If one is willing to buy off the lot, then one can choose from a small selection of cars.
Did a "writeup" of a drive in the GT3 Touring and the Carrera T here on RL, creating threads in this forum and over on the 991 GT3 forum. Harley and I did record video with a "better camera," but I need to see what might be made of it. Also wonder if if would be interesting to folks.
01-17-2018, 03:40 PM
#56
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I totally disagree with that. It doesn't take a good driver to put the foot down all the way on a flat, open stretch of road. And it feels really good to do that in a car with a lot of power. A lot better than in a car with less power. Even the S felt too down on power for me (also I didn't like the power delivery, the base may actually be better in that regard.) My GTS is better but could definitely be faster. I love the feeling of having a powerful engine when the time is right to use it!
01-17-2018, 03:45 PM
#57
01-17-2018, 03:48 PM
#58
To some maybe. I could afford any modern new Porsche but I wanted the Base engine. I really didn't want all that extra HP for the street - a difference that you can barely feel anyway from the Base to the S (at least in the 991.2). The Turbo S is a beast but is miserable to drive on the street - you really can't have any fun with that car unless you are on the autobahn. I did a lot of research into my 911 to make sure I knew what I was getting, I flew down to PEC-ATL to drive the new turbos on the track and listened to them from a bystanders position. If I lived in the mountains or tracked my car, I would want a lot more HP. If I was tracking my car, I probably wouldn't even buy a Porsche. It would have to be a mid-engine car.
I'd pay more for a manual over a pdk. For the street, I would also pay more for LESS hp than an S and pay extra for shorter gears. (I'm a manual guy).
The better brakes of the S are totally irrelevant for the street - we are limited by the grip of our tires not by the size of our calipers or number of pistons. I will caveat this statement assuming you don't drive your car in the mountains or a track. I also didn't want red or yellow calipers to mess up the visual of my black wheels.
I agree that I wanted S options like SPASM that were not available on the Base model. I even approached Porsche exclusive and PAG to try to get SPASM added on a base....but nope was the answer. They want you to step up to the S to get those options.
I think for the first time in Porsche's history, the Base Carrera is the car to get over the S for the 991.2.
Just one man's opinion of course.
I'd pay more for a manual over a pdk. For the street, I would also pay more for LESS hp than an S and pay extra for shorter gears. (I'm a manual guy).
The better brakes of the S are totally irrelevant for the street - we are limited by the grip of our tires not by the size of our calipers or number of pistons. I will caveat this statement assuming you don't drive your car in the mountains or a track. I also didn't want red or yellow calipers to mess up the visual of my black wheels.
I agree that I wanted S options like SPASM that were not available on the Base model. I even approached Porsche exclusive and PAG to try to get SPASM added on a base....but nope was the answer. They want you to step up to the S to get those options.
I think for the first time in Porsche's history, the Base Carrera is the car to get over the S for the 991.2.
Just one man's opinion of course.
Keep in mind that it is getting more and more rare to find a 911 with <$10k in options so I wouldn't necessarily compare base price to base price but option out both the S and base model as you like and then see how the chips stack up.
01-18-2018, 11:54 AM
#59
Three Wheelin'
I'll sum up what I already posted in this thread and stated in countless others....
A Base 911 with no options gets you 98%. The other 2% is made up in comfort that doesn't really matter and performance that will never get extracted on the street - no matter how great a driver you think you are.
That being said - I recommend the S
A Base 911 with no options gets you 98%. The other 2% is made up in comfort that doesn't really matter and performance that will never get extracted on the street - no matter how great a driver you think you are.
That being said - I recommend the S
I totally disagree with that. It doesn't take a good driver to put the foot down all the way on a flat, open stretch of road. And it feels really good to do that in a car with a lot of power. A lot better than in a car with less power. Even the S felt too down on power for me (also I didn't like the power delivery, the base may actually be better in that regard.) My GTS is better but could definitely be faster. I love the feeling of having a powerful engine when the time is right to use it!
01-18-2018, 12:04 PM
#60
Then why do people get anything other than a base Carrera? Why do Porsche improve performance with every generation? Because people like more power, better handling, better braking, etc. Even though the base Carrera is "enough" car for anyone on the street, people want more. Heck, you can't even extract a Camry's full ability on the street legally so even a base Carrera is overkill according to this logic.