Is A Pre-owned GT3 On Your Wish List - Things Just Got Very Interesting
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Is A Pre-owned GT3 On Your Wish List - Things Just Got Very Interesting
Some of you have been following saga of the engine issues relating to the 991.1 - GT3. There was a known defect (cause is complicated) in the finger follower parts in the valve train. The Concerned Owners Group (see the GT3/RS forum) met with PAG and the result was a proposed extended warranty being issued. PAG originally offered the following as a remedy "Porsche will extend the warranty on the engine of all 991.1 generation GT3 vehicles in all markets with respect to failure modes related to this issue. The extension will provide coverage for 10 years from the original in-service date, or 120,000 total vehicle miles, whichever occurs first. (The base bumper-to-bumper warranty remains unchanged at 4 years or 50,000 miles for the US, as do all other warranty terms and conditions.) The warranty extension is fully transferable to any future owner. All US owners will be informed in writing and the change will be applied and processed with no additional owner action required. If a vehicle shows the described failure patterns (e.g., misfire at high revs and check engine light) and the inspection in the workshop shows the failure patterns, Porsche will replace the defective engine with a new engine having the latest parts. Porsche confirms that the issue is isolated to the 991.1 GT3, and that the 991.1 GT3 RS and the 991 R are not affected."
UPDATE, I just received my official warranty extension letter from PCNA and the warranty extension is much better than PAG originally promised. It now states "Effectively, at once the limited warranty on all your vehicles internal engine components continues for ten years from your vehicles in service date, up to 120,000 miles, whichever comes first".
So now any 991.1 GT3 (MY 2014, 2015 & 2016) will have extended engine warranty. This makes the uncertainty of owning a 2014-2016 GT3, pretty much a non-event. Think about it, on a 2014 GT3, the engine warranty will run until 2024 or three years longer than a new 2018 991.2 GT3 delivered this month. I don't think mileage is too much of an issue as GT3 drivers are notoriously skimpy with miles driven. It certainly changes my thinking on keeping my car past in New Car Limited Vehicle Warranty period.
For anyone that had doubts about how special the Porsche brand is, this should alleviate those doubts. They push the limits of engine performance and design that we demand as consumers. When things don't go as planned, they step in and make it their problem as well. They have me as a customer for life.
UPDATE, I just received my official warranty extension letter from PCNA and the warranty extension is much better than PAG originally promised. It now states "Effectively, at once the limited warranty on all your vehicles internal engine components continues for ten years from your vehicles in service date, up to 120,000 miles, whichever comes first".
So now any 991.1 GT3 (MY 2014, 2015 & 2016) will have extended engine warranty. This makes the uncertainty of owning a 2014-2016 GT3, pretty much a non-event. Think about it, on a 2014 GT3, the engine warranty will run until 2024 or three years longer than a new 2018 991.2 GT3 delivered this month. I don't think mileage is too much of an issue as GT3 drivers are notoriously skimpy with miles driven. It certainly changes my thinking on keeping my car past in New Car Limited Vehicle Warranty period.
For anyone that had doubts about how special the Porsche brand is, this should alleviate those doubts. They push the limits of engine performance and design that we demand as consumers. When things don't go as planned, they step in and make it their problem as well. They have me as a customer for life.
#2
Rennlist Member
For anyone that had doubts about how special the Porsche brand is, this should alleviate those doubts. They push the limits of engine performance and design that we demand as consumers. When things don't go as planned, they step in and make it their problem as well. They have me as a customer for life.
And in many, many other instances they have not stepped in "to make it their problem as well".
Happy that you are happy, but it's intellectually dishonest to apply this situation across the brand. Just my $0.02.
#3
Banned
In this instance, yes, but look how much it took to get to this place.
And in many, many other instances they have not stepped in "to make it their problem as well".
Happy that you are happy, but it's intellectually dishonest to apply this situation across the brand. Just my $0.02.
And in many, many other instances they have not stepped in "to make it their problem as well".
Happy that you are happy, but it's intellectually dishonest to apply this situation across the brand. Just my $0.02.
Agree completely. This was great but I personally know one friend with a 14 and has had engine problems (multiple) and lets just say it is not going well with Porsche.
Last edited by goin2drt; 12-07-2017 at 10:35 AM.
#4
For anyone that had doubts about how special the Porsche brand is, this should alleviate those doubts. They push the limits of engine performance and design that we demand as consumers. When things don't go as planned, they step in and make it their problem as well. They have me as a customer for life.
Porsche have known about this significant problem for a long time (years.......), yet dealers still replace spark plugs and coil packs even tho the most likely explanation for the CELs is the finger follower problem - and they do this to this very day.
Totally unacceptable.
Last edited by randr; 12-07-2017 at 10:44 AM.
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Interesting! I do not know of one E,F engine failure that ultimately was not repaired/replaced under warranty even before PAG issued the extended warranty. In fairness, if a "misfire fault" appears do you expect that an engine should be immediately replaced? A coil or plug or other related part could be intermittently failing. This is just part of the process to diagnose. Perhaps your friend should be a bit more proactive in the process and get PCNA involved.
#6
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Thread Starter
#7
Banned
Interesting! I do not know of one E,F engine failure that ultimately was not repaired/replaced under warranty even before PAG issued the extended warranty. In fairness, if a "misfire fault" appears do you expect that an engine should be immediately replaced? A coil or plug or other related part could be intermittently failing. This is just part of the process to diagnose. Perhaps your friend should be a bit more proactive in the process and get PCNA involved.
I am not going to get in a pissing match with you. Just trust me it is not all roses and unicorns with all these issues. I can speak of at least this one example and know all he has been through. You don’t know any of the details so don’t go ASSUMING he hasn’t been proactive. If you want details please feel free to PM, if not then don’t assume anything.
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#8
Rennlist Member
While it's great that Porsche has made it official that the warranty will cover all basis, I will still be avoiding the .1GT3 (all years). Once I'm finished with my T, I will move on to a .2GT3T, but not a .1 for fear of it's potential issues (even if still covered). It will be hard to shake the stigma I'm afraid but I do recognize that at least Porsche is trying. Not sure what real world experiences are like but I do hope they do the right thing by their customers that are spending big bucks on these toys.
#9
Interesting! I do not know of one E,F engine failure that ultimately was not repaired/replaced under warranty even before PAG issued the extended warranty. In fairness, if a "misfire fault" appears do you expect that an engine should be immediately replaced? A coil or plug or other related part could be intermittently failing. This is just part of the process to diagnose. Perhaps your friend should be a bit more proactive in the process and get PCNA involved.
Perhaps people in North America will buy a CPO 991.1 GT3 - I doubt any one else will. Why do you think they went to solid lifters (at great risk) in the 991.2 GT3...........................................
#10
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Are you joking? this is an inherent design flaw? There are far too many people that have had engine problems, followed by service problems.
Perhaps people in North America will buy a CPO 991.1 GT3 - I doubt any one else will. Why do you think they went to solid lifters (at great risk) in the 991.2 GT3...........................................
Perhaps people in North America will buy a CPO 991.1 GT3 - I doubt any one else will. Why do you think they went to solid lifters (at great risk) in the 991.2 GT3...........................................
#11
I think it's awesome that Porsche went this far for .1 owners and I do think it takes some of the risk of ownership out of the equation, but there is still a difference between owning a car where the engine may blow up and get fixed and one where the engine won't blow up. Even if the manufacturer is covering all the costs, do you still want to deal with the hassle?
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think it's awesome that Porsche went this far for .1 owners and I do think it takes some of the risk of ownership out of the equation, but there is still a difference between owning a car where the engine may blow up and get fixed and one where the engine won't blow up. Even if the manufacturer is covering all the costs, do you still want to deal with the hassle?
I only considered a 2016 MY with the "G" engine. It is the same design as the RS engine just smaller displacement. Having said this, there was no extended warranty when I was shopping this past spring. If I was in the market now for a 991.1 GT3, I would not think twice about taking the plunge now.
There have always been issues with Porsche engines. For example, the IMS bearing issue in the 996, 987 and early 997's. The LSD guard issue in the Metzger engines in the 996, 997 GT3's. Their engine design has been pushing the envelope for quite some time, for example 9K redines. There will always be problems when engine designs are pushed this hard. I think it is better to have a 10 year warranty and suffer the inconvenience of an engine swap than have it on my dime after 4 years. I track regularly and so this is a big deal to me as well as a lot of other folks that are like minded .
#13
Race Director
These engines have inherent design flaws. They would have been faced with a class action lawsuit sooner or later. They figured avoid that and be proactive when the concerned owners group pursued the issue. This avenue is much cheaper than a lawsuit.
Porsche looks out for Porsche, trust me ....
No, not on my wish list this Christmas ....
Although .... If you're going to buy one and drive the hell out of it, it is a good deal By the time the warranty expires, you will have gotten your $$ our of it regardless of what resale will be then.
Porsche looks out for Porsche, trust me ....
No, not on my wish list this Christmas ....
Although .... If you're going to buy one and drive the hell out of it, it is a good deal By the time the warranty expires, you will have gotten your $$ our of it regardless of what resale will be then.
#14
Well .1 GT3s were failing off the track as well. I think what Porsche is doing here is awesome, and should give comfort to owners that they won't suffer a catastrophic financial loss. But it still wouldn't change my opinion that it's a car I'd never own. Less than zero interest in a car with known serious issues, regardless of the warranty. Same reason I quickly dropped the 570S off my consideration list. Don't need the headache.
#15
Rennlist Member
For anyone that had doubts about how special the Porsche brand is, this should alleviate those doubts. They push the limits of engine performance and design that we demand as consumers. When things don't go as planned, they step in and make it their problem as well. They have me as a customer for life.
Like others, I wouldn't touch one of these cars with a barge pole - who needs the potential headache. I'm sure the collective is breathing a sigh of relief and thinking that they can bail on these cars and not lose a ton of money.....but not so sure.