StudGarden

They hate us cause they ain’t us.

Rambler_13

^ Another advantage of the Cayman's space is the pass-through availability of the rear hatch. In my 987 Cayman S, I could fit my pop-up tent for track days through the rear hatch and rest the front of it on the passenger seat. Looking at the tent sitting outside of the car, you would never believe that it would fit.

Rambler_13

My favorite reasoning for this by Porsche was that the rear engine design provided too much traction, prematurely wearing tires during racing. In other words, it's just too good, haha and they need to level the playing field! While true about the traction, it's like come on, who's buying that.

K-A

I’ll take what’s behind window #3, please!

I certainly don’t disagreee. Mid engine is fundamentally “right” (and when you drive a Cayman, the improved scalpel like balance is glaring). But, for a street car, for added character, and for certain superhero like benefits (traction, braking), it’s still the rear engines that dominate. Such as the GT2 holding the ‘Ring record, outperforming mid engine hybrid hypercars with 200+ more HP, for example.

Haaaahh.

PJ Cayenne

The air cooled versions needed no coolant lines or upfront radiators. Rear engine also meant no driveshaft. Efficient and light.

K-A

Another good point. Everything is succinctly back there. You can literally smell it by the heat.

I would assume one aspect of the 911’s less-is-more black magic would be a result of less drivetrain loss (on RWD cars, at least) as the power doesn’t have to transfer all the way across the car.

OldGuy

Middle is better and Porsche recognized it when they tried to kill the 911 in the late 70's until the world revolted. The point is the 911 is just a cool car! Porsche
has engineered most of the snap oversteer out of it and it is still one of the coolest looking cars ever. There is NO other car that you can Tell that THAT is a "insert car model here" from
the beginning to the newest model like you can a 911. Yes its the fastest car out of the corner. Look even the new 911 RSRs are mid engine. They just swapped the tranny and the engine
placements. They had to to get the rear diffusers under the car. Just enjoy the best looking sports car ever.

Arcoril

I generally agree but have a few nitpicks:

While the improved balance is definitely a nice benefit, the primary reason for moving to a mid-engined chassis is to make room for the massive rear diffusers that other cars are using. Aero is king on the track and the packaging constraints were making the 911s uncompetitive.

They currently are, but as recently as 2015 Nissan's GTR-LM Nismo LMP1 program used a front engine design: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_GT-R_LM_Nismo

F1 is a constructor series with regulations. If the regulations required all cars to be rear engined next year they'd all be rear engined. That's like arguing that they all decided to go with hybrid V6 power because of the performance.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that rear engine layouts are dynamically superior to mid engined layouts. Mid engine allows for a better polar moment of inertia, but that isn't everything. At the very least, the traction and braking benefits that come from having the engine in the rear give the 911 its unique character. There are plenty of mid engined cars out there but the 911 (and technically the Smart car, I suppose) is the only game in town if you want this experience.

randr

Ferrari 488GTB - 41.5 front 58.5 rear
Porsche 991.1 GT3 - 39.3 front 60.7 rear plus RAS......
RSR move, in large part, was for rear diffuser

All mid-rear, rear-mid cars need a thoughtful approach to weight transfer, front to back and side to side - underestimate this and they will bite

Valvefloat991

This isn't quite right. The weight transfer forward is purely a function two dimensions: the wheelbase and the center of gravity height. The front/rear weight distribution does not affect weight transfer. However, in a 911, the car starts off with more weight in the back, so after the weight transfer, there is less weight on the front tires than there is on a front-engined car of the same dimensions. As a result, the rear brakes are able to provide more of the braking and the front brakes aren't overloaded.

Compared with an E92, the 911's center of gravity height is probably an inch or two lower and that does reduce weight transfer, increasing this benefit even more.

bkrantz

Actually, "where" the engine sits is a very simplistic way of characterizing vehicle dynamics.

In addition to the engine, other components (transaxle or transmission, differentials and axles, fuel, etc.) and even the driver, have significant mass. The amounts of mass as well as placements, plus the rest of the car, determines the location of center of mass/gravity. The location of the wheels, front and rear, then determines the static front to rear mass (weight) balance. The distribution of mass relative to the CG determines the polar moment of inertia, the tendency of the car to rotate or spin.

All of this, plus the suspension design (spring stiffness, roll stiffness, damping, computer controlled components) and tires, then determines dynamics such as weight transfer and potential traction at each wheel.

So, a car with a certain engine location, or with a stated static front to rear weight balance cannot claim to be "better". The total integrated dynamic behavior is what matters, and wins races or makes a car fun to drive.

(If you want to really geek out, dig up Carroll Smith's old books.)

Bemo

Interesting information, thank you!

mtgadbois

Not quite. Almost all the air-cooled 911s had a front cooler/oil radiator. The plumbing in my 993tt is such that at oil change time 3 to 4 quarts of oil are in the front radiator and lines and you don't bother with getting that oil out.

Also if any you out there are thinking that changing the oil in your 991 is complicated just look up what is involved with an oil change for a 993 or 993tt. On a scale of 1 to 10 an oil change is rated a 6.

Valvefloat991

Changing the oil in a 991 is trivial, but the way the lubrication system is designed, with the "internal dry sump" you still leave 4-5 quarts of old oil in the engine.

LexVan

Then why isn't Porsche dominating their class in the GT race series at places like La Mans and the IMSA races in the USA?