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Need help with GTS build

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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 12:04 AM
  #16  
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deichenb
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I went through the same decisions on my build, and I'm ordering a high-MSRP GTS. Why a GTS instead of a Turbo or GT3? For me, it was easy:
1) 7-speed
2) RWD
3) Rear seats for young kids
4) It'll be my daily, and it's chassis is compliant
Neither the Turbo nor the GT3 offer those combinations. Life isn't measured in bridge to gantry times. The 991.2 GTS may be the best DD sportscar on the planet. That's worth the MSRP to me.
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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 12:14 AM
  #17  
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Welcome!

Now as most people have said that is a lot of "stuff" in your build and while it will be your car and you need to order what you want, IMO there still needs to be some sort of practicality built into every purchase unless you light your cigars with $100 bills. (who knows, you may)

Getting up into the $170K range on a GTS would be past that limit for me as the ROI is just not high enough. I'd be looking at Turbos at that price point.

I don't have an issue with a GTS/4,....it's not just for all-weather environments, as they have benefits in just about every area.

I'd dump.....

PCCB - Standard brakes are more then enough. PCCB are expensive to maintain (when they need it) and notable for not bringing much to trade-in or resale.
Axle Lift - The front is just not all that low, I can be extra careful and save $2.6K
I'm not a huge fan of PDCC either for the money.
LED Headlights in Black (GTS already comes with xenons in black, LED nice, but not $2.8K nice IMO)
Headlight washers in body color (GTS already has them in black to kinda match the rest of the GTS package, save the $300)
ACC/PAS (Just not enough value here for how I drive at least)

Keep the sport design mirrors that are free!,....unless you just have to have mirrors that fold. And even tough the sport design package is $1.5K for just a little spoiler, I think it adds some character.

I know that would be a lot to take off, but it will be money you save for the next 911 you WILL want a few years down the road.......

Good luck with it all for sure....
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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 03:29 AM
  #18  
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The yellow PCCBs look very nice on the SBM paint. No brake dust either and very long lasting with incredible performance. I would hold onto them with this exterior color but would dump them if you go to anything different.

Dump the LEDs. The Xenons are great. If I had to do it all over again I would go manual over PDK. Lots of savings with those changes.
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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 09:31 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by bmclaurin
So I guess my primary question is, how much is *too* much from an options standpoint?
$170k is a lot for a GTS.

It's really difficult to tell, for certain, what you're going to care about before you've actually owned the car for a while. People are going to tell you what to dump, but it's going to be based on what they care about, not what you care about.

Even if you check all the boxes, you can still end up feeling dissatisfied. Recently I sold a 4S that I really quite liked for the promise of a GTS 4 build that's supposed to show up in December, only because I felt I needed to go back to manual from PDK. Now I'm second-guessing myself on that.

My personal perspective, which may or may not apply to you:

Before I owned my 4S, I thought AWD would only matter in winter. In practice, I really liked its advantages even when it's warm and dry. Now I can't go back.

I don't think the PCCB's really make sense for, well, anyone. Sure, they'll last a lifetime, but the upkeep on regular steel brakes isn't that much. Track rats don't take them because they do burn through brakes, even PCCB's, and PCCB upkeep is too high for them.

I ordered Front Axle Lift because I did find that I scrape the front end, and I didn't have SPASM. Yes, the front end is that low, and I don't understand people who claim it isn't. Maybe they live in a land of supreme flatness. Hereabouts some entries, like the entry to my local bank's parking lot, are at a significant angle.

The Premium Plus package is worth it. Not so sure about the 18 way seats - IMHO the 14 way seats are enough, but that's a personal thing.

I do enough freeway driving that I'd take ACC if it were available for manual cars. Since it isn't, I didn't order it. I've seen some owner videos which make it clear it's pretty nifty for long distance trips.

PDCC is an interesting performance option, but ultimately I decided against it in my build, because I doubt I'll ever corner hard enough for it to matter. The car stays very flat without it. Whether you want it or not depends largely on whether you intend to track the car. If you do, you probably want it. If you don't track the car, you probably won't notice the difference.

I wouldn't pay for most of the cosmetic things on your order, but this is where personal taste kicks in. I can understand the appeal of the GTS on the headrests, even if I wouldn't pay for it myself. The embossed GTS on the center console I have more difficulty understanding.
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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 02:45 PM
  #20  
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I picked up my '18 C4 GTS Coupe August 21 so perhaps I can be of help. Can't disagree with any of the insights offered above. If you can afford your build (which is very nice) get it. Especially if you're going to keep the car. If you're really concerned about the price of your build, here are some thoughts which are worth exactly the price you're paying for them.

1. All / Four wheel drive. When I bought my 993 C4S in 1997, the mechanics called the AWD system an $8,000 insurance policy. Maybe purists don't need or want it on the track or think 2WD is more fun but in the real world, that insurance policy is golden: not necessarily to save you from yourself but to save you from others. My last car was a 2006 C4S Cab. I don't think I'd be without AWD now. Technology is like that. You love things you didn't previously know existed.

2. Front axle lift is completely unnecessary if you're careful. On my '06 Cab, I installed a Porsche aerokit front end which was the same as the GT3 without the air slot above the bumper. I never scratched it in 10 plus years. On the other hand, a guy who liked mine so much he got one for himself had to replace the lower piece every couple of years.

Here is that nose which you can see is lower that the GTS with SPASM:



Here is the front of the C4 GTS with SPASM:



I do recommend the Zunsport grills for looks and safety of your radiators.

3. Ceramic Brakes are cool but just not worth the money. If you love the yellow calipers, they can be painted. Ceramics squeak and are fragile. Only dedicated, "monied," track guys seem to really like them. I had two sales managers dissuade me from getting them.

4. PDK is a blast and very engaging, depending how you use it. This comes from a guy who drove a stick all his life and even moved my peddles to make heel-toe easier. The additional acceleration is fun, too. The stick never bothered me in traffic but I'm loving the PDK.

5. Active Cruise Control.... While arguably a safety feature, $2,500 is absurd for something other manufacturers include as standard. I tend to embrace technology but not things that take over your responsibilities as a driver. Conversely, if you drive in stop-and-go traffic frequently, you can set the ACC for any speed and not worry...

6. Lane Change Assist... See #6. Plus, the warning light is in the wrong place (inside the door) which actually distracts my attention from the side mirrors. If the light were on the mirror, maybe. My $.02, this option is a hazard, not a safety feature.

7. PDCC is not just a performance funtion but also a comfort function. The car rides better with it. With SPASM, you'll love it. It not only levels the car while cornering but also acceleration and braking. It gives you a great sense of confidence. (Don't abuse it.).

8. The LED headlights are fabulous (and pricey). This depends on how much you drive at night and where. I believe in light and love driving the dark canyons around Los Angeles.

9. Sport Design Package... This is just a slightly longer rear spoiler and far too much money. My only aesthetic fault with the 991is that when the spoiler is up, it looks ungainly. I ordered a TechArt Rear Spoiler II which is out for paint. I hope to install it this
weekend. I don't usually like wings but this one caught my eye. To each his own.

10. I went with the Carbon interior package which I believe looks better with the Black / Bordeaux interior. Very subjective:



11. Interior Logos: Again, very subjective but I'm not a fan of multiple logos and even got the model delete option. I'm contemplating taking the Porsche logo off the rear. I don't mind the painted GTS on the side because it's subtle with the Sapphire Blue. Used to get compliments on this:



I can only guarantee one thing. You'll love the car whatever the configuration. Good luck to you. Enjoy!


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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 04:03 PM
  #21  
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I heartily agree with the advice of trying to balance all the options you WANT (after your must haves are chosen) with how long you plan to keep it. If, like me, you are a serial trader every 2 years, then it is a poor decision to pile on the options.
Having said that, buying a Porsche is not a good financial decision for anyone, they are emotional purchases meant to give you immense joy. I too am configuring an order to about 160k and no, its not smart, but I sure will get satisfaction from owning and driving something I have tweaked just for me. Make a budget you are comfortable with and go for it.
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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 04:11 PM
  #22  
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My Targa GTS came to $190,000 when configured, but granted that is CDN$.

Are you going to track the car extensively? If so, some of your options make sense.

If I were to make some suggestions, I would get rid of Adaptive Cruise Control as it's a sports car, not a luxury barge. You may enjoy being more in control of your car without it. I have had this option on my Merc CLS63 and rarely used it and I have never missed it on my Targa GTS. I am just too involved in driving it.

Also consider whether you need PDCC, the front axle lift system, and Rear Axle Steering. I would not get the PCCB's as repair on these is really expensive (I had a 458 Italia, rotors are a crazy price if damaged).

I wouldn't fret too much about the price and whether to get into a Turbo. A similarly-specced Turbo would be significantly more expensive, and the GTS may be more fun to drive on the street. In the end get what you like and for the price of these cars, a few thousand here or there shouldn't make much of a difference.
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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 04:13 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Rocket_boy
PCCB - Standard brakes are more then enough. PCCB are expensive to maintain (when they need it) and notable for not bringing much to trade-in or resale...
Not true on either count, because they rarely need any maintenance and they absolutely bring a premium on resale over standard brakes.

There are plenty of things I'd nix on his build, but PCCB is not one of them.
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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 04:16 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 9ELOVIN

3. Ceramic Brakes are cool but just not worth the money. If you love the yellow calipers, they can be painted. Ceramics squeak and are fragile. Only dedicated, "monied," track guys seem to really like them. I had two sales managers dissuade me from getting them.
Where do you guys get this stuff? Ceramics don't squeak at all and they're only fragile if you drop a wheel on them during a tire change. And track guys? They actually hate them because of the cost associated with maintaining them under heavy track use. Most track guys swear by iron rotors. PCCBs are awesome for the street and the Gen IIIs last for freaking ever in normal use.

The PCCB brakes are so good, I wouldn't even consider a new Porsche without them. Of course, if one doesn't want to spend the coin, it makes sense to leave them off. But not for the reasons you describe.
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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 05:14 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by KenTO
I would get rid of Adaptive Cruise Control as it's a sports car, not a luxury barge.
That kind of snide remark isn't really helpful for a reasoned discussion. Making a long distance trip in a 911 does not make it a luxury barge. While it's not the fun way to drive the car, it's still a situation that arises for some of us.

Whether ACC is useful for bmclaurin really depends on how much long distance driving he intends to do in the car.

Originally Posted by Archimedes
Where do you guys get this stuff?
Forum posts, honestly. I'm mostly repeating what others have said about the cost and usefulness of the PCCB's.

You feel they're really great. Why? Serious question, not intended to provoke, some detail as to why you feel that way would be helpful. Is there a benefit to them beyond their longevity? Because regular brake pads don't need service that often.

When I searched on the subject, I read anecdotes from people who have used both on the same car, and not found any performance benefit.
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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 05:22 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Gus_Smedstad
You feel they're really great. Why? Serious question, not intended to provoke, some detail as to why you feel that way would be helpful. Is there a benefit to them beyond their longevity? Because regular brake pads don't need service that often.

When I searched on the subject, I read anecdotes from people who have used both on the same car, and not found any performance benefit.
I love them primarily for the simple reason that they offer better modulation and feel under heavy braking from higher speeds. I can set corner entry speeds more precisely with the PCCBs than I can with my iron rotor car. I own both and I'd pay for the PCCBs all day.

Two bonuses are a) no brake dust, so I can go longer between car washes and b) they should last the life of the car without replacement. And mine don't squeal at all, unlike the iron rotors in my Cayman S, which constantly required hard braking to keep them from squealing. The only reason I wouldn't own PCCBs would be a) if I tracked a lot and didn't want the expense or 2) lived in a place/climate where gravel and stones were a constant issue, as catching one in the rotor could be a big expense.

Also, they offer a decent unsprung weight savings over the stand rotors as well. And to anyone who says there is no performance benefit, I'd ask - why then does Porsche use a PCCB car everytime they want to go set a fast lap somewhere?
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Old Aug 30, 2017 | 06:28 PM
  #27  
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I don't think anyone can debate the positives that PCCBs have (there are many), but I'm just not paying $8k for them,....$4k maybe. @ $8k I won't even consider them at that price, but that seems to be the going rate for most brands that offer them (some even higher!)

Strictly a personal choice.

I do wish they would become more popular then hopefully the price would come down a bit, but the initial price is why most people don't even consider them.
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