luv2sleep

I'm really stuck on the CL wheels. Call me old school but I really don't like them! I like having a spare when I go out of town and I'm pretty sure there isn't a CL spare option, yet.
I can take or leave the PCCB; it is ideal for the track for sure but not really practical otherwise.
I like the extra torque/hp of the TTS but that can easily be fixed. They both have the exact same engine but different turbos, is my understanding. It's not like the RS vs S models in Audis (different turbos plus engine components).
What am I missing besides bragging rights? We have our fill of "stiff necked" ego maniacs here in O.C. and there's no need to add one more :-)

Karl911

You can order a TTS with 5 lug wheels at no extra cost. Your not forced to have CLs. It would have been nice to have MSC2s as a option!

worf928

The on-track durability of the PCCB discs is much debated. My take is:
- Very experienced track drivers that don't over-use brakes can make the PCCBs equally cost effective with steel
- Newbies can ruin PCCBs in 10 track days or less (because they don't know how to brake or cool down.)
- For folks in the middle PCCBs are 2x the cost.

Of course the specific tracks make a difference and one can always drive-around in Green group, slowly. But, again, based on my observables there are a lot more people that 'prematurely' wear out PCCBs with track time than there are people that get a 'full' life on the track out of them.

I also don't want this to turn into a pi$$ing contest.

My take is the opposite. If my TT was destined purely for public road use I would have spec'd PCCBs. Under normal-use conditions they will last 100k-miles and leave virtually no brake dust. The slightly lower weight improves ride and handling. Its all good except for a $20k bill when they come due for a full brake job. If you get 100k miles then you win. If you get 10k miles and 10 track days you loose.

luv2sleep

Holy moly, $20K for a PCCB brake job when it's a $9K option?! That's what I paid for my kid's Jetta 1.8T, fully loaded and brand new! I'm sure a Indy shop will do it for far less or even a DIY job but still.

luv2sleep

This is why I love these forums!

Randyc151

Um, that's just the cost of the ceramic rotors. There is no cheaper aftermarket part for them, and some people just put on steel instead. That said, I've done 50 track days on a set of ceramics and they still passed dealership CPO density testing when I sold the car.

luv2sleep

That's steep however your last sentence is encouraging. Like I've said, noob here still learning.

philg3

I show the difference on cost between a TT and a TTS to be $30K. While you can order a TTS and opt for the 5 lug wheels at no extra cost, you are certainly paying for the CL -- believe it's about a $4K option on the TT.

The good thing about the 911 model line up is that there are offerings for different needs and budgets. When I looked at my options when ordering, initially I was considering an "S", until I noticed the TT had many options standard, so the differential between the "S" (optioned), and a TT similarly equipped was very reasonable, especially considering the bigger engine. TT brakes are bigger than the S, and the base model has even smaller brakes. I think I'll be OK with the brakes on the TT, and bought a wheel wax to fight the brake dust from Chemical Guys -- also bought one of those monster 8hp dryers -- Tim Allen would be proud of me.

Choosing which model to buy depends upon your needs, expectations, and your budget. Mine, (should take delivery within the next few days) will never see a track. It will also be 0.1 sec slower (0 - 60) than a TTS; 540hp will be adequate -- don't think I'm missing out. It is true that more TTS's are sold than TT's.

My last 911 was a 996 base with 295hp; I think I'll like the 540hp more.

luv2sleep

Shot you a PM.

worf928

Realize that the $9k option price is the up-charge for what's already on the car. Figure big TT brakes would be a $10k option if a 'base' TT had no brakes at all

A full brake job for the non-PCCB brakes at a dealer will run ... I'd guess(*) $4.5k or more. The parts at dealer-list will be ~3.5k for the rotors, pads and misc bits and figure 7-ish hours or so at dealer labor rates of ~$175/hr.

Now the steel brakes are where you can deal with a non-Dealer shop and save bucks 'cause they'll get the normal rotors and pads from a distributor like SSF and - perhaps - not mark them up to Porsche list plus dealer markup (**)

(*) I do brake jobs on my (and others) 928s. Haven't done one of our 9[89]1s yet, but I'll bet I'm ball-park give or take dealer markup.

(**) On the flip-side, independent shops in the Beantown area mark-up their parts almost to the point where they might be as expensive as local Dealers.

worf928

It depends upon your build. There are a lot of 0$ options on the TTS that are not free on the TT. If you spec the 'free' TTS options on a TT and add stuff to a TT that's standard on the TTS (e.g. PDDC, 18-ways, etc.) then the difference ends up at ~$18k-ish.

If you don't care about the 'free' TTS options then yes, you can get a bigger margin between the two.

philg3

Understand. The additional big ticket items included with the TTS (not with the TT) are the ceramic brakes, the CL wheels, PDCC, and the 18 way seats. There are some other nice to have goodies such as carbon fiber dash trim, and sport mirrors. Certainly, none of these items are "free"; nothing comes free from Porsche. So, it depends upon the individual's perception of value for the model prices differential, and the value of the "S" designation. Keep in mind that the TT comes very well optioned. Whether you go for the TT or TTS, you still have to pay extra for LCA, Burmester, Front Axle lift, etc.

It's not that I don't care about the "free" TTS options, I just can't justify the price differential for my use. And while I think the CL wheels looks great, the standard ones on the TT look mighty fine too. If price were not a factor, I'd definitly go for the TTS, but my analytical nature wouldn't let me do it.

luv2sleep

All very good points and inputs.
On a different note, when is the next refresh for the 911? 3 years from now? My wife is looking at the Cayenne and I think '18 is theirs. I prefer the Audi SQ7 that may hit the states. It's going to be a TDI; love the low end torque of TDIs! It's supposed to be quicker than a Cayenne S.

ace37

I was originally planning to get a C2S, but in the end I was spending so much on options I decided to look at the TT. Then I changed my order.

I didn't want centerlocks so much that I would actually pay extra to delete them. (Don't tell Porsche, they'll bill me!) Some love them. I just don't. I would take PCCBs for free but they don't get me very excited. I'd buy the +40hp package a la carte for $5 or maybe $10k, but it would have been around $20k with my build and I don't care that much.

Just like with the C2/4, I look at the S model as essentially a large options package. Most of the equipment is available a la carte, some is cheaper or standard on the S, and a few things are restricted to the S. If you really want the restricted options or want a fairly loaded build the S usually makes more sense. The turbo S is also a top 911 trim level, and that might be important to you. Finally, the cost spread is only 10-15% so if you can comfortably afford one you can afford the other.

I plan to just drive my TT until the warranty is up, and then I'll give a lot of though to making the car feel new again by changing the full exhaust system, intercoolers, and retuning. I could also swap the turbos if that's not enough. After those changes I would expect a TT and TTS to offer identical performance.

For me the S wasn't worth getting. YMMV.

ace37

I wonder if Porsche were to make a 2018 911 turbo GTS right at 600 hp, what percentage of orders would go for the TT, the TTS, and the TT GTS.