View Poll Results: Did you follow the 2000 mile break procedure as outlined in the Owner's manual?
Yes
23
51.11%
No
22
48.89%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll
How many of you followed the 2000 mile break in guideline?
05-03-2017, 01:49 AM
#19
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Same here. Porsche does not follow this for any of their cars. I did 500 miles babying and then progressively getting closer to 9K rpm over the next 500 miles for my gt3 and will do the same for the turbo (except for 9K RPM, of course :-) ), but from what I've heard from Porsche and BMW engineers, it's more of a precaution bordering with superstition than a real need.
05-03-2017, 06:16 AM
#20
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24 months after The Deed my opinion has not changed:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turb...l#post13473509
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turb...l#post13473509
05-03-2017, 12:23 PM
#22
Race Director
Why would you say that? It is in the owners manual.
The reality is a new engine needs time to develop the surface finishes that help the engine resist wear for a long long time.
Part of this process gives time for the looser particles on the bearing/sliding surfaces -- mainly the cylinder walls/piston/rings -- to gradually work loose.
Under high RPMs the extra friction can "tear" these particles away and this can accelerate the wear. Additionally the particles may be larger in size and these can score the cylinder walls, the piston surfaces, and in severe cases fracture a ring.
The basics are as always to be reasonably easy on the car as the engine comes up to temperature. (This is true if one is breaking in an engine or at any other time.) Then avoid high RPMs and avoid lugging the engine. Once broken in one can then user higher RPMs, as high as one wants to go, but lugging the engine should always be avoided.
During break in one doesn't have to drive the car that easy. Once up to temperature some moderately hard accelerations are ok as this subjects the rings to more pressure. These need to be spaced apart to give the engine time to shed the extra heat that accumulates as new engines always run hotter -- due to the higher levels of friction new engines have.
Lab and field tests have found break in continues for thousands of miles *after* the nominal break in period. But in the case of Porsche (and I dare say this is true of a number of other vehicles) 2K miles has enough break in that pretty much the gloves come off at 2K miles.
An engine that is broken in "fast" will develop maximum power quicker. I don't know if its maximum power level is the same as, more than, or less than it would have been had the engine been broken in by the book. But whatever its maximum power level is the engine's output also falls off quicker.
This compared to an engine that is broken in by the book. This engine will take longer to develop maximum power but its power level will remain steady for longer.
(My 2002 Boxster was broken in by the book and its engine output has remained good -- the techs report no signs of any fall off -- even with 310K+ miles on the engine.)
Porsche may not follow the break in guidelines for cars it uses for certain things but Porsche doesn't retain ownership of these cars but sells them on. And I wouldn't use what Porsche does in these cases as a guideline on how to treat a car I own.
Somewhere I have pics of cars -- Minis and other cars -- on a car carrier. I noticed the cars because of the mix of models and the condition of the brake rotors. Every brake rotor was blue.
I talked to the driver. He said he picked the cars up at a track -- this is northern CA -- where they had been used for some kind of press event.
He was taking them to a place -- not the dealers -- that went through the cars replacing the worn out tire and overheated brake components.
Then afterwards the cars would be delivered back to the dealer lots and sold as new cars. Someone buying one of these car would see the mileage -- maybe a hundred miles or so -- and think "just test drives" not knowing how those miles were actually accumulated.
The bottom line is break in is real and my advice is to follow the automakers guidelines regarding this process.
I would add that unless it is forbidden to at least at the end of break in would be to change the oil and filter so that after break in when you go for the higher RPMs the engine is running fresh/clean oil.
With my new 2008 Cayman S I changed its factory fill oil at 750 miles and not suprisingly found the oil full of enough metal -- mostly aluminum -- that the oil -- the filter housing oil -- had a metallic sheen to it. Likewise the filter element had bits of stuff stuck all over it. (Later at the dealer I showed a senior tech pics of the filter element and he said all new filters look like that.)
New engines are notorious for shedding trash -- bits of metal, sealant, etc. -- and for heavily contaminating the oil with combustion byproducts due to the higher levels of blow by as the rings develop their fit to the cylinder walls.
The reality is a new engine needs time to develop the surface finishes that help the engine resist wear for a long long time.
Part of this process gives time for the looser particles on the bearing/sliding surfaces -- mainly the cylinder walls/piston/rings -- to gradually work loose.
Under high RPMs the extra friction can "tear" these particles away and this can accelerate the wear. Additionally the particles may be larger in size and these can score the cylinder walls, the piston surfaces, and in severe cases fracture a ring.
The basics are as always to be reasonably easy on the car as the engine comes up to temperature. (This is true if one is breaking in an engine or at any other time.) Then avoid high RPMs and avoid lugging the engine. Once broken in one can then user higher RPMs, as high as one wants to go, but lugging the engine should always be avoided.
During break in one doesn't have to drive the car that easy. Once up to temperature some moderately hard accelerations are ok as this subjects the rings to more pressure. These need to be spaced apart to give the engine time to shed the extra heat that accumulates as new engines always run hotter -- due to the higher levels of friction new engines have.
Lab and field tests have found break in continues for thousands of miles *after* the nominal break in period. But in the case of Porsche (and I dare say this is true of a number of other vehicles) 2K miles has enough break in that pretty much the gloves come off at 2K miles.
An engine that is broken in "fast" will develop maximum power quicker. I don't know if its maximum power level is the same as, more than, or less than it would have been had the engine been broken in by the book. But whatever its maximum power level is the engine's output also falls off quicker.
This compared to an engine that is broken in by the book. This engine will take longer to develop maximum power but its power level will remain steady for longer.
(My 2002 Boxster was broken in by the book and its engine output has remained good -- the techs report no signs of any fall off -- even with 310K+ miles on the engine.)
Porsche may not follow the break in guidelines for cars it uses for certain things but Porsche doesn't retain ownership of these cars but sells them on. And I wouldn't use what Porsche does in these cases as a guideline on how to treat a car I own.
Somewhere I have pics of cars -- Minis and other cars -- on a car carrier. I noticed the cars because of the mix of models and the condition of the brake rotors. Every brake rotor was blue.
I talked to the driver. He said he picked the cars up at a track -- this is northern CA -- where they had been used for some kind of press event.
He was taking them to a place -- not the dealers -- that went through the cars replacing the worn out tire and overheated brake components.
Then afterwards the cars would be delivered back to the dealer lots and sold as new cars. Someone buying one of these car would see the mileage -- maybe a hundred miles or so -- and think "just test drives" not knowing how those miles were actually accumulated.
The bottom line is break in is real and my advice is to follow the automakers guidelines regarding this process.
I would add that unless it is forbidden to at least at the end of break in would be to change the oil and filter so that after break in when you go for the higher RPMs the engine is running fresh/clean oil.
With my new 2008 Cayman S I changed its factory fill oil at 750 miles and not suprisingly found the oil full of enough metal -- mostly aluminum -- that the oil -- the filter housing oil -- had a metallic sheen to it. Likewise the filter element had bits of stuff stuck all over it. (Later at the dealer I showed a senior tech pics of the filter element and he said all new filters look like that.)
New engines are notorious for shedding trash -- bits of metal, sealant, etc. -- and for heavily contaminating the oil with combustion byproducts due to the higher levels of blow by as the rings develop their fit to the cylinder walls.
05-03-2017, 01:08 PM
#23
If 2000 mile break-in was real, they wouldn't have different rules for the rest of the world than for us.
05-03-2017, 02:21 PM
#24
Advanced
For what it’s worth, I thought I would provide a different twist on this debate and attempt to create a connection to depreciation levels (which are also frequently discussed here).
For those of you that rotate in and out of expensive sports cars and complain about first year depreciation, the break-in process is relevant. For secondary market buyers the concern is often along the lines of (particularly for an expensive high performance car like this) -- has the previous/original owner treated, cared for, and broken this car in properly? The phrase I frequent here is “drive it like you stole it”. With that attitude clearly out there, it raises concern for a used car buyer. For anyone that believes the break-in process is necessary and important, buying a used car potentially creates the risk of getting a car that was not broken in properly potentially impacting its quality. Risk directly translates into a lower price for the car. So, the mere presence of this break-in uncertainly (both the necessity of it and if procedures were followed) creates lower bids for used cars impacting the outcome of eventual transactions.
In my personal situation, I was very hesitant to buy such an expensive car (my first such car) used because I think that a person that regularly buys new with intent to sell quickly has every incentive to treat the car differently than a long-term buy-and-hold customer. Not to imply that anything necessarily “bad” happens to these cars with a quick turn-over buyer – but the mere presence of doubt will lower secondary market bids and exacerbate the depreciation that people see with these cars in the first one or two years (it levels off after that to a more value driven market).
A couple of thoughts come to mind for consideration….
- Buying used from people you know that have similar views on these issues helps so you can be reasonably assured that the car was treated consistent with your beliefs in how a car should be treated and broken in (random used car purchase from across the country – a bit more risky perhaps).
- If there were a way to accurately record how a car has been driven (including break-in stats), this would likely serve to help raise pricing in the secondary market.
For those of you that rotate in and out of expensive sports cars and complain about first year depreciation, the break-in process is relevant. For secondary market buyers the concern is often along the lines of (particularly for an expensive high performance car like this) -- has the previous/original owner treated, cared for, and broken this car in properly? The phrase I frequent here is “drive it like you stole it”. With that attitude clearly out there, it raises concern for a used car buyer. For anyone that believes the break-in process is necessary and important, buying a used car potentially creates the risk of getting a car that was not broken in properly potentially impacting its quality. Risk directly translates into a lower price for the car. So, the mere presence of this break-in uncertainly (both the necessity of it and if procedures were followed) creates lower bids for used cars impacting the outcome of eventual transactions.
In my personal situation, I was very hesitant to buy such an expensive car (my first such car) used because I think that a person that regularly buys new with intent to sell quickly has every incentive to treat the car differently than a long-term buy-and-hold customer. Not to imply that anything necessarily “bad” happens to these cars with a quick turn-over buyer – but the mere presence of doubt will lower secondary market bids and exacerbate the depreciation that people see with these cars in the first one or two years (it levels off after that to a more value driven market).
A couple of thoughts come to mind for consideration….
- Buying used from people you know that have similar views on these issues helps so you can be reasonably assured that the car was treated consistent with your beliefs in how a car should be treated and broken in (random used car purchase from across the country – a bit more risky perhaps).
- If there were a way to accurately record how a car has been driven (including break-in stats), this would likely serve to help raise pricing in the secondary market.
The following users liked this post:
Odin (08-01-2022)
05-05-2017, 09:33 AM
#26
08-01-2022, 05:51 AM
#27
For what it’s worth, I thought I would provide a different twist on this debate and attempt to create a connection to depreciation levels (which are also frequently discussed here).
For those of you that rotate in and out of expensive sports cars and complain about first year depreciation, the break-in process is relevant. For secondary market buyers the concern is often along the lines of (particularly for an expensive high performance car like this) -- has the previous/original owner treated, cared for, and broken this car in properly? The phrase I frequent here is “drive it like you stole it”. With that attitude clearly out there, it raises concern for a used car buyer. For anyone that believes the break-in process is necessary and important, buying a used car potentially creates the risk of getting a car that was not broken in properly potentially impacting its quality. Risk directly translates into a lower price for the car. So, the mere presence of this break-in uncertainly (both the necessity of it and if procedures were followed) creates lower bids for used cars impacting the outcome of eventual transactions.
In my personal situation, I was very hesitant to buy such an expensive car (my first such car) used because I think that a person that regularly buys new with intent to sell quickly has every incentive to treat the car differently than a long-term buy-and-hold customer. Not to imply that anything necessarily “bad” happens to these cars with a quick turn-over buyer – but the mere presence of doubt will lower secondary market bids and exacerbate the depreciation that people see with these cars in the first one or two years (it levels off after that to a more value driven market).
A couple of thoughts come to mind for consideration….
- Buying used from people you know that have similar views on these issues helps so you can be reasonably assured that the car was treated consistent with your beliefs in how a car should be treated and broken in (random used car purchase from across the country – a bit more risky perhaps).
- If there were a way to accurately record how a car has been driven (including break-in stats), this would likely serve to help raise pricing in the secondary market.
For those of you that rotate in and out of expensive sports cars and complain about first year depreciation, the break-in process is relevant. For secondary market buyers the concern is often along the lines of (particularly for an expensive high performance car like this) -- has the previous/original owner treated, cared for, and broken this car in properly? The phrase I frequent here is “drive it like you stole it”. With that attitude clearly out there, it raises concern for a used car buyer. For anyone that believes the break-in process is necessary and important, buying a used car potentially creates the risk of getting a car that was not broken in properly potentially impacting its quality. Risk directly translates into a lower price for the car. So, the mere presence of this break-in uncertainly (both the necessity of it and if procedures were followed) creates lower bids for used cars impacting the outcome of eventual transactions.
In my personal situation, I was very hesitant to buy such an expensive car (my first such car) used because I think that a person that regularly buys new with intent to sell quickly has every incentive to treat the car differently than a long-term buy-and-hold customer. Not to imply that anything necessarily “bad” happens to these cars with a quick turn-over buyer – but the mere presence of doubt will lower secondary market bids and exacerbate the depreciation that people see with these cars in the first one or two years (it levels off after that to a more value driven market).
A couple of thoughts come to mind for consideration….
- Buying used from people you know that have similar views on these issues helps so you can be reasonably assured that the car was treated consistent with your beliefs in how a car should be treated and broken in (random used car purchase from across the country – a bit more risky perhaps).
- If there were a way to accurately record how a car has been driven (including break-in stats), this would likely serve to help raise pricing in the secondary market.
08-01-2022, 05:02 PM
#28
As a young Army officer in (West) Germany in 1965 I visited the Porsche factory. They had a dyno room where they were running new 4 cylinder engines at full throttle for 4-5 hours. Then, I was told, they check them out and put them in new cars. Were all engines in new cars treated to this "test"? Don't know. However, IMHO I believe those who support the 2,000 mile break-in are doing themselves (and their machines) a favor. In addition to the notes about taking off metal particles and collecting other contaminants in the original oil, the parts are being lap ground to create the best matching surface possible. Soooo, I break in my engines per Porsche and change oil at the end of the break-in period.
08-01-2022, 11:53 PM
#29
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24 months after The Deed my opinion has not changed:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turb...l#post13473509
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turb...l#post13473509
Last edited by worf928; 08-02-2022 at 08:27 AM.
08-02-2022, 01:50 PM
#30
RL Community Team
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I did.