Best chiptune for Porsche 991.1 Turbo S
03-10-2016, 04:27 PM
#16
If you tune your ECU your warranty is dead dead dead. This is asked on every forum every day. Ask yourself why shouldn't it be? You bought a car engineered by Porsche and then changed its limits. If you have any powertrain issues and try to get it warranted you might as well be a thief.
03-10-2016, 05:11 PM
#17
Pro
As you know, Champion is one of the, if not the largest Porsche dealer in the United States and they have a separate performance facility in SoFla. It is a very impressive facility.
Look if your motor or PDK blows and Porsche NA denies the warranty claim because of the GIAC/Champion tune, then it's nice to know that Champion will make it right. How will they do this? They may contract with a local partner (in my case it would be GMG Racing in SoCal) or maybe they transport your car to their SoFla location.
Who else in the aftermarket tuning industry would do this? That's BEYOND confidence in their product. And it's nice to know that it's available with a $40K engine that you no longer have a Porsche warranty if you elect to tune.
Good luck.
03-10-2016, 06:54 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
If you tune your ECU your warranty is dead dead dead. This is asked on every forum every day. Ask yourself why shouldn't it be? You bought a car engineered by Porsche and then changed its limits. If you have any powertrain issues and try to get it warranted you might as well be a thief.
I am 3,000 miles away. So I flew to Champion to meet Tom to see what this written warranty was all about.
As you know, Champion is one of the, if not the largest Porsche dealer in the United States and they have a separate performance facility in SoFla. It is a very impressive facility.
Look if your motor or PDK blows and Porsche NA denies the warranty claim because of the GIAC/Champion tune, then it's nice to know that Champion will make it right. How will they do this? They may contract with a local partner (in my case it would be GMG Racing in SoCal) or maybe they transport your car to their SoFla location.
Who else in the aftermarket tuning industry would do this? That's BEYOND confidence in their product. And it's nice to know that it's available with a $40K engine that you no longer have a Porsche warranty if you elect to tune.
Good luck.
As you know, Champion is one of the, if not the largest Porsche dealer in the United States and they have a separate performance facility in SoFla. It is a very impressive facility.
Look if your motor or PDK blows and Porsche NA denies the warranty claim because of the GIAC/Champion tune, then it's nice to know that Champion will make it right. How will they do this? They may contract with a local partner (in my case it would be GMG Racing in SoCal) or maybe they transport your car to their SoFla location.
Who else in the aftermarket tuning industry would do this? That's BEYOND confidence in their product. And it's nice to know that it's available with a $40K engine that you no longer have a Porsche warranty if you elect to tune.
Good luck.
03-11-2016, 11:03 AM
#20
Yes thief... If you were honest and told Porsche what you did they would deny your warranty. Your only option would be to try and sneak it under the radar and commit fraud. Its unethical in the least.
As far as my qualifications go, I'm certain that as a mechanical engineer and car builder that I far exceed the norm on here. But its an open forum, you can read my posts, ignore them, flame them and do what you want.
As far as my qualifications go, I'm certain that as a mechanical engineer and car builder that I far exceed the norm on here. But its an open forum, you can read my posts, ignore them, flame them and do what you want.
03-11-2016, 11:27 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
Yes thief... If you were honest and told Porsche what you did they would deny your warranty. Your only option would be to try and sneak it under the radar and commit fraud. Its unethical in the least.
As far as my qualifications go, I'm certain that as a mechanical engineer and car builder that I far exceed the norm on here. But its an open forum, you can read my posts, ignore them, flame them and do what you want.
As far as my qualifications go, I'm certain that as a mechanical engineer and car builder that I far exceed the norm on here. But its an open forum, you can read my posts, ignore them, flame them and do what you want.
03-11-2016, 12:39 PM
#22
Track Day
Thread Starter
Hi dear users ; )
One question in my previous M5 and all BMW models if you chip tune your car and go to the dealer to do service they wont find out about the tune unless they specifically search for it which they don't so all is ok.
If you do that in a Porsche will they be able to know just doing the regular service on the car? I know that in some other brands you can put things like they were from factory go the service and tune it again but other brands the moment you change anything it cant be undone and no more warranty.
What is your experience on this?
Again thank you the help and advice, you guys are the best!
One question in my previous M5 and all BMW models if you chip tune your car and go to the dealer to do service they wont find out about the tune unless they specifically search for it which they don't so all is ok.
If you do that in a Porsche will they be able to know just doing the regular service on the car? I know that in some other brands you can put things like they were from factory go the service and tune it again but other brands the moment you change anything it cant be undone and no more warranty.
What is your experience on this?
Again thank you the help and advice, you guys are the best!
03-11-2016, 01:48 PM
#23
Porsche can query the ECU to find the entire checksum history.
Every Porsche-derived ECM configuration has a known checksum, and Porsche can query the checksum history with their standard handheld maintenance computers.
Do they do that as a matter of course when you take the car in for an oil change? It's not uncommon for Porsche to push out an ECM update for all cars with certain configurations. In my 6 months of ownership, I know my ECM has been updated twice. They determine if it needs an update by comparing the checksum against what it should be. Worst case, they write over your tune and you have to re-upload your tune from the handheld that GIAC or Cobb has sent you.
Either way, a valid history of checksums and events is pretty easy to recognize. Its even somewhat evident if someone has multiple ECUs and swaps in a factory-configured ECU after a problem arises. I don't know for sure, but certainly all GM, Ford, and Mercedes ECMs protect the checksum history from alteration.
My Porsche dealership isn't interested in denying a warranty claim on my squeaky seat because my car appears to have an invalid checksum... but I'm a rational (in my opinion), frequent customer. This concept of a warranty being "dead" is an urban myth. Would my dealership deny a claim for a windowed short block because it appears my checksum isn't a valid Porsche tune? Probably. Even if they didn't, most manufacturers now ask for a documented checksum validation before THEY approve engine, transmission, or driveline warranty work.
Take a step back and realize that manufacturers don't care if you tune your car's ECM. A lot of good customers that they want to retain do aftermarket things to their cars. But they've installed a significant number of controls to make sure that they don't pay for the risks YOU take.
Every Porsche-derived ECM configuration has a known checksum, and Porsche can query the checksum history with their standard handheld maintenance computers.
Do they do that as a matter of course when you take the car in for an oil change? It's not uncommon for Porsche to push out an ECM update for all cars with certain configurations. In my 6 months of ownership, I know my ECM has been updated twice. They determine if it needs an update by comparing the checksum against what it should be. Worst case, they write over your tune and you have to re-upload your tune from the handheld that GIAC or Cobb has sent you.
Either way, a valid history of checksums and events is pretty easy to recognize. Its even somewhat evident if someone has multiple ECUs and swaps in a factory-configured ECU after a problem arises. I don't know for sure, but certainly all GM, Ford, and Mercedes ECMs protect the checksum history from alteration.
My Porsche dealership isn't interested in denying a warranty claim on my squeaky seat because my car appears to have an invalid checksum... but I'm a rational (in my opinion), frequent customer. This concept of a warranty being "dead" is an urban myth. Would my dealership deny a claim for a windowed short block because it appears my checksum isn't a valid Porsche tune? Probably. Even if they didn't, most manufacturers now ask for a documented checksum validation before THEY approve engine, transmission, or driveline warranty work.
Take a step back and realize that manufacturers don't care if you tune your car's ECM. A lot of good customers that they want to retain do aftermarket things to their cars. But they've installed a significant number of controls to make sure that they don't pay for the risks YOU take.
03-11-2016, 02:48 PM
#24
Well stated.
Porsche can query the ECU to find the entire checksum history.
Every Porsche-derived ECM configuration has a known checksum, and Porsche can query the checksum history with their standard handheld maintenance computers.
Do they do that as a matter of course when you take the car in for an oil change? It's not uncommon for Porsche to push out an ECM update for all cars with certain configurations. In my 6 months of ownership, I know my ECM has been updated twice. They determine if it needs an update by comparing the checksum against what it should be. Worst case, they write over your tune and you have to re-upload your tune from the handheld that GIAC or Cobb has sent you.
Either way, a valid history of checksums and events is pretty easy to recognize. Its even somewhat evident if someone has multiple ECUs and swaps in a factory-configured ECU after a problem arises. I don't know for sure, but certainly all GM, Ford, and Mercedes ECMs protect the checksum history from alteration.
My Porsche dealership isn't interested in denying a warranty claim on my squeaky seat because my car appears to have an invalid checksum... but I'm a rational (in my opinion), frequent customer. This concept of a warranty being "dead" is an urban myth. Would my dealership deny a claim for a windowed short block because it appears my checksum isn't a valid Porsche tune? Probably. Even if they didn't, most manufacturers now ask for a documented checksum validation before THEY approve engine, transmission, or driveline warranty work.
Take a step back and realize that manufacturers don't care if you tune your car's ECM. A lot of good customers that they want to retain do aftermarket things to their cars. But they've installed a significant number of controls to make sure that they don't pay for the risks YOU take.
Every Porsche-derived ECM configuration has a known checksum, and Porsche can query the checksum history with their standard handheld maintenance computers.
Do they do that as a matter of course when you take the car in for an oil change? It's not uncommon for Porsche to push out an ECM update for all cars with certain configurations. In my 6 months of ownership, I know my ECM has been updated twice. They determine if it needs an update by comparing the checksum against what it should be. Worst case, they write over your tune and you have to re-upload your tune from the handheld that GIAC or Cobb has sent you.
Either way, a valid history of checksums and events is pretty easy to recognize. Its even somewhat evident if someone has multiple ECUs and swaps in a factory-configured ECU after a problem arises. I don't know for sure, but certainly all GM, Ford, and Mercedes ECMs protect the checksum history from alteration.
My Porsche dealership isn't interested in denying a warranty claim on my squeaky seat because my car appears to have an invalid checksum... but I'm a rational (in my opinion), frequent customer. This concept of a warranty being "dead" is an urban myth. Would my dealership deny a claim for a windowed short block because it appears my checksum isn't a valid Porsche tune? Probably. Even if they didn't, most manufacturers now ask for a documented checksum validation before THEY approve engine, transmission, or driveline warranty work.
Take a step back and realize that manufacturers don't care if you tune your car's ECM. A lot of good customers that they want to retain do aftermarket things to their cars. But they've installed a significant number of controls to make sure that they don't pay for the risks YOU take.
03-12-2016, 08:32 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by longboarder
I am 3,000 miles away. So I flew to Champion to meet Tom to see what this written warranty was all about.
As you know, Champion is one of the, if not the largest Porsche dealer in the United States and they have a separate performance facility in SoFla. It is a very impressive facility.
Look if your motor or PDK blows and Porsche NA denies the warranty claim because of the GIAC/Champion tune, then it's nice to know that Champion will make it right. How will they do this? They may contract with a local partner (in my case it would be GMG Racing in SoCal) or maybe they transport your car to their SoFla location.
Who else in the aftermarket tuning industry would do this? That's BEYOND confidence in their product. And it's nice to know that it's available with a $40K engine that you no longer have a Porsche warranty if you elect to tune.
Good luck.
As you know, Champion is one of the, if not the largest Porsche dealer in the United States and they have a separate performance facility in SoFla. It is a very impressive facility.
Look if your motor or PDK blows and Porsche NA denies the warranty claim because of the GIAC/Champion tune, then it's nice to know that Champion will make it right. How will they do this? They may contract with a local partner (in my case it would be GMG Racing in SoCal) or maybe they transport your car to their SoFla location.
Who else in the aftermarket tuning industry would do this? That's BEYOND confidence in their product. And it's nice to know that it's available with a $40K engine that you no longer have a Porsche warranty if you elect to tune.
Good luck.
In a post a Few weeks ago on another forum, Sam from ByDesign states that ByDesign too would begin to provide a warranty.
But if they have actually done that I have not seen it yet.
03-13-2016, 05:20 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by FBA
That would be cool! I'm a SAM/ Cobb guy...
I hope for his customers it's true as that would be a great win for them
03-16-2016, 05:34 AM
#28
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First off I would also like to add that Sam at ByDesign is a top notch guy, and it a pleasure working with him. Also, I would like to add to the discussion with a recommendation for the COBB Accessport, for which we are an authorized distributor and have a COBB certified Protuner here in house, and touch on the warranty questions from my experience.
In regards to the COBB Accessport, the flexibility of this tuning option is absolutely superb. Not only does it come with some great OTS maps (and a wealth of fun features), if you choose to pursue modifications further than an exhaust with high flow cats and a drop-in filter it does allow you to record your vehicle's unique ECU's datalog. You can then email that datalog over to us for our Protuner to review and make you a custom map specifically for your vehicle's modifications to maximize the power potential of the car. On top of that, you can save near limitless different custom files maximized for different setups, such as running pump gas versus race fuel verses E85 with various combinations of intake and exhaust upgrades. It is as close to a custom dyno tune that you can get without the dyno, and you never have to remove your ECU from the car.
http://www.fabspeed.com/porsche-991-...accessport-v3/
http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/a...-accessport-v3
In the event you would like to go in for service and keep the enhancement to yourself, with the press of a few buttons you can easily revert back to the factory ECU file. From my experience, yes they can look and tell that the ECU has been accessed (same as they would if you were to hook up an OBDII scanner) but not that it has been modified, unless the ECU is pulled and sent out for an in-depth evaluation. Therefore this is typically a non issue when you go in for service. In the event of a warranty dispute, they would have to prove the modifications occurred and that it was the direct cause of failure of the warrantied item (Magnusson Moss Act). However, will it ever really come to down to that? The answer is very likely no. For those in the position to purchase a brand new Porsche that is still under warranty, I would assume you have a good relationship with your dealership and one that they would value very much. If push came to shove and you had a Very unlikely failure on your over-engineered German machine during your warranty period, the likelihood of them denying your warranty and risk losing your loyalty/future business is quite slim. I have never personally had (nor have heard from my fellow performance specialists at Fabspeed) an instance where one of our clients had a warranty dispute from bolt-ons and/or tuning. Play the cards how you would like, but know you've been dealt a hell of a good hand haha.
The Porsche Turbos are superb examples of German quality with loads of untapped potential in sound and performance. In the event you are interested in taking your driving experience up a notch please feel free to reach out to me any time and I would be happy to answer any questions that you have, even in regards to products not on our website (we also have excellent experience and contacts in the industry for upgrading wheels, suspension, brakes, and cosmetics)
In regards to the COBB Accessport, the flexibility of this tuning option is absolutely superb. Not only does it come with some great OTS maps (and a wealth of fun features), if you choose to pursue modifications further than an exhaust with high flow cats and a drop-in filter it does allow you to record your vehicle's unique ECU's datalog. You can then email that datalog over to us for our Protuner to review and make you a custom map specifically for your vehicle's modifications to maximize the power potential of the car. On top of that, you can save near limitless different custom files maximized for different setups, such as running pump gas versus race fuel verses E85 with various combinations of intake and exhaust upgrades. It is as close to a custom dyno tune that you can get without the dyno, and you never have to remove your ECU from the car.
http://www.fabspeed.com/porsche-991-...accessport-v3/
http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/a...-accessport-v3
In the event you would like to go in for service and keep the enhancement to yourself, with the press of a few buttons you can easily revert back to the factory ECU file. From my experience, yes they can look and tell that the ECU has been accessed (same as they would if you were to hook up an OBDII scanner) but not that it has been modified, unless the ECU is pulled and sent out for an in-depth evaluation. Therefore this is typically a non issue when you go in for service. In the event of a warranty dispute, they would have to prove the modifications occurred and that it was the direct cause of failure of the warrantied item (Magnusson Moss Act). However, will it ever really come to down to that? The answer is very likely no. For those in the position to purchase a brand new Porsche that is still under warranty, I would assume you have a good relationship with your dealership and one that they would value very much. If push came to shove and you had a Very unlikely failure on your over-engineered German machine during your warranty period, the likelihood of them denying your warranty and risk losing your loyalty/future business is quite slim. I have never personally had (nor have heard from my fellow performance specialists at Fabspeed) an instance where one of our clients had a warranty dispute from bolt-ons and/or tuning. Play the cards how you would like, but know you've been dealt a hell of a good hand haha.
The Porsche Turbos are superb examples of German quality with loads of untapped potential in sound and performance. In the event you are interested in taking your driving experience up a notch please feel free to reach out to me any time and I would be happy to answer any questions that you have, even in regards to products not on our website (we also have excellent experience and contacts in the industry for upgrading wheels, suspension, brakes, and cosmetics)
__________________
Porsche Performance Specialist
John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
Porsche Performance Specialist
John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
03-19-2016, 10:44 PM
#30
If the OP plans on doing a lot more after market upgrades then those too have to take into account for the ECU Mapping's!