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MY VISIT TO CHAMPION MOTORSPORTS--INTERCOOLERS/Y PIPE HITTING MARKET & TURBOS SOON

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MY VISIT TO CHAMPION MOTORSPORTS--INTERCOOLERS/Y PIPE HITTING MARKET & TURBOS SOON

 
Old 08-26-2015, 11:15 AM
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sdg1871
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Default MY VISIT TO CHAMPION MOTORSPORTS--INTERCOOLERS/Y PIPE HITTING MARKET & TURBOS SOON

Yesterday I visited Champion Motorsports to discuss the work that I want them to do on my car (install the upgraded intercoolers/Y pipe, datalogging with the new mods to ensure they are functioning properly and eliminating my car's heat soak issue and possibly changing to catless exhaust).

As usual, Tom was terrific and informative. And finally some good news for those of us waiting so long for their intercoolers for the 991 TT and TTS -- they will hit the market very very shortly (as in days not weeks). They have enough finished product for an initial run of about 14 sets. Shortly they will write their instruction manual for installers and the kits will be released. These will not be cheap as they included huge upgraded ICs, a Y pipe and what looks like very upscale carbon tubing.

Here are my photos of the new IC kit parts and comparison photos of their new ICs vs the stock ICs. The Champion ICs (on the left in the pics) are a lot wider than the stock ones (on the right in the pics) and have more rows in their core -- meaning that there is a much larger surface area for heat exchange than the stock ICs.

The GIAC tune that is paired with the new ICs (I have no idea what GIAC is calling it but I would call it Stage 3) is supposed to be a lot more aggressive than the Stage 2 tune. I am told there is a significant power bump in absolute bhp and torque and that there will be a lot more power at higher RPMs (as I understand it, due to the enhanced intercooling they can push the turbos harder at higher RPMs than with stock cooling). I know what the numbers are but I certainly wouldn't scoop Champion and GIAC in putting them out. What I can say is that they are excellent and don't rely on water/meth injection, nitrous, sensor/cat-destroying leaded race gas or other techniques to get there (although I am sure with those other techniques the power would be greater still).

Can't wait until cars with these new IC/Y-pipe kits starting hitting the dragstrip so we can see the performance difference in the real world. I certainly hope and expect that the real world numbers will mirror the big gains being seen on the dyno. Maybe we will even see nines in the quarter mile in the fall when the air is cool.

They are also actively testing and datalogging a turbo upgrade. That looks to be at least a few months away from market. When I was there their test car was on the dyno for datalogging for the turbo upgrade (it had both the ICs/Y pipe and the bigger turbos installed). Should be an exciting development for those looking for the really big power.
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:14 AM
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Oh Crap they're going to do their complete turbo package again like with their 997.2 Turbo. I've been to all of the Eastern Block countries but I've never been to Florida. Someday I will have to visit that Porsche Dealership they call a Tuning Shop!
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:32 AM
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Default MY VISIT TO CHAMPION MOTORSPORTS--INTERCOOLERS/Y PIPE HITTING MARKET & TURBOS SOON

Originally Posted by Tacet-Conundrum
Oh Crap they're going to do their complete turbo package again like with their 997.2 Turbo. I've been to all of the Eastern Block countries but I've never been to Florida. Someday I will have to visit that Porsche Dealership they call a Tuning Shop!
I've only been to Hungary and the Czech Republic in the former Eastern Bloc and that was an experience -- especially Prague which was fantastic.

As for Champion Motorsports their facility is not on the premises of Champion Porsche (the car dealership). It is in a different part of town with a different building and is separate. Champion Motorsports may have common ownership with Champion Porsche but the business of Champion Motorsports is not that of a car dealership but that if a tuner.

From what I have seen in my two visits there, they specialize in making the hardware for mods such as upgraded intercoolers and turbos. They also install them as well as sell mod products made by others. They partner with GIAC on the actual tuning in terms of the ECUs and how they will be adjusted to account for various hardware. They have a dyno and datalog the results and send them to GIAC who does the ECU part.

Champion Motorsports has a solid reputation among Porsche enthusiasts in the U.S. for good work. In terms of reputation in the U.S. Porsche world I would them alongside west coast tuner GMG Racing--a tuner I definitely would have used were I living on the West Coast.

So I do not believe that your characterization of Champion Motorsports as a "Porsche dealership they call a tuning shop" is fair or accurate. They are a tuning shop irrespective of common ownership with a Porsche dealership.
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Old 08-31-2015, 11:48 AM
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A lot of my contract work right after college took me to the Eastern Block - then my life went to crap for a few years after that. Picked up the pieces and now here I am.

So you know if they are going to call it the Works1 package like the last 997.2? That was the TurboS before the TurboS came out.
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Old 09-02-2015, 02:15 AM
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Very impressive looking hardware. I am interested to see the power gains and drop in ETs due to this "kit".

Thanks for sharing
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:32 AM
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Default MY VISIT TO CHAMPION MOTORSPORTS--INTERCOOLERS/Y PIPE HITTING MARKET & TURBOS SOON

Originally Posted by redlightrich
Very impressive looking hardware. I am interested to see the power gains and drop in ETs due to this "kit".

Thanks for sharing
It is. I am assuming that Champion and/or GIAC will post the dyno results soon as well as having Champion formally announce this intercooler upgrade and revised tune. Mine is being installed next week at Champion along with the Techart paddle shift kit (my car has the multi function wheel) and some FVD headers that I bought that were lightly preowned (only on s 991 Turbo S for a few months).
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Old 09-02-2015, 04:09 PM
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Looks really impressive - can't wait to see what your numbers look like!
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Old 09-02-2015, 05:16 PM
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Default MY VISIT TO CHAMPION MOTORSPORTS--INTERCOOLERS/Y PIPE HITTING MARKET & TURBOS SOON

Originally Posted by FBA
Looks really impressive - can't wait to see what your numbers look like!
That Makes two of us!
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:00 AM
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Default MY VISIT TO CHAMPION MOTORSPORTS--INTERCOOLERS/Y PIPE HITTING MARKET & TURBOS SOON

My car arrived at Champion Motorsports today. Champion intercoolers and GIAC stage 2 plus tune will be installed as well as FVD headers and IPD Y pipe if it proves to be compatible with the Champion ICs and carbon fiber tubing connecting the ICs with the Y pipe and if it shows a performance gain. Car will be dynoed and datalogged. Also installing the Techart paddle shifters to my multi function wheel in black with red trim to match my interior.

Hoping the heat soak will be eliminated and that the car will be capable of a quarter mile in the nines at sea level in the cool fall air.
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Old 09-10-2015, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tacet-Conundrum View Post
Oh Crap they're going to do their complete turbo package again like with their 997.2 Turbo. I've been to all of the Eastern Block countries but I've never been to Florida. Someday I will have to visit that Porsche Dealership they call a Tuning Shop!
I'm not sure what you mean by any of this.

Are you comparing Florida with the former Eastern Bloc?

Are you calling Champion Motorsport a dealer and not a motorsport shop?

WTF. Get a clue. Champion has more wins in pro sportscar racing than virtually all the other shops in the USA, combined. For example, name one other US based team that won LeMans. Little shops on the west coast were racing NATCC back then, not even SCCAPRO.

The Motorsport division runs out of their former LMP shop. You know, the one that raced (and won with) Audi LMP900 prototypes.
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Old 09-11-2015, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Wong View Post
For example, name one other US based team that won LeMans.
Chevrolet Racing (Pratt and Miller built C6R and C7R) have twice won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in GTE. And there's the famous 1965-1967 Shelbys.

I have no skin the the Champion thing, just recognizing my friend Tommy Milner's driving.
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:04 AM
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Default MY VISIT TO CHAMPION MOTORSPORTS--INTERCOOLERS/Y PIPE HITTING MARKET & TURBOS SOON

This week, Champion Motorsports installed its new upgraded intercoolers and the GIAC Stage 2 plus tune to match it.

While I won't post the dyno graphs of my car until Champion formally releases its upgraded intercoolers with the GIAC stage 2+ tune I will share key facts. We also found out that the IPD Y pipe will not fit the Champion IC kit and that the FVD headers I was going to install in the car made it LOSE power according to the testing on Champion's dynojet dyno.

My car, which was the Europipe exhaust with 100 cell cats -- as opposed to Catless -- gained, in peak horsepower and torque, 30 wheel horsepower and 44 lbs ft of wheel torque. But that alone does not tell the whole performance story.

Specifically, there are points in the rev range where the gap between the horsepower and torque produced by the new ICs and GIAC stage 2 plus tune and the GIAC stage 2 tune is as much as 50 wheel horsepower and 64 wheel torque in my car. That is huge. Also, as I had hoped for, the gap between the power produced by this new GIAC stage 2+ and the stage two is quite large at the higher RPMs. This is clearly, as GIAC promised, the Stage 2 plus tune not aggressively dialing back boost and timing and high rpm's as it does with the stage 2 tune and stock intercoolers to protect the intake air temperatures from getting too high.

Champion did not get a chance to test the Tubi catless race exhaust on my car versus my Europipe with high flow cats because they didn't have one in stock. That is a test I definitely want done.

As to whether my car's heat soak at events is gone I will take it to events and let you know what happens.

My sense is with the Europipe Versus Tubi catless I am leaving something like 35 wheel horsepower on the table (at least if my car produces the same amount of power with the same mods as Champion's test 911 Turbo S development car). But there is no question that the europipe exhaust is quieter in terms of sound levels but still lets you hear turbo and wastegate noise and popping in sport and sport plus on letting off the gas.

The IPD Y pipe does not fit the Champion ICs unfortunately. We tried it in my car and the carbon tubes exiting the Champion ICs do not fit the IPD Y pipe. So my car did not get the IPD Y pipe installed. My car has the IPD plenum and that fits just fine.

I also had Champion install a set of FVD headers (I picked up these on my own used: champion did not sell them) and dyno hem. Unfortunately they lost both power and torque relative to stock headers. And they lost massive amounts of horsepower and torque at lower-midrange RPMs. Needless to say I am not using them and went back to stock headers. To me those headers are a complete waste of money at least with a GIAC tuned 991.

So my conclusion is that the results were excellent but the real proof will come at events.
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Visceral View Post
Chevrolet Racing (Pratt and Miller built C6R and C7R) have twice won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in GTE. And there's the famous 1965-1967 Shelbys.

I have no skin the the Champion thing, just recognizing my friend Tommy Milner's driving.
Got it. Chevy Racing isn't exactly a customer shop though. Pratt and Miller is strictly a Motorsports entity. I have yet to see the likes of GMG or BBi climb as high as P&M or Champion in real, sanctioned competition.

Champion has won class and overall at LeMans. Also at World Challenge GT back in the day with the Audi RS6 as the defacto factory team. And countless Porsche class wins in USRRC and if I'm not mistaken, IMSA.

Sorry, I just had to pipe up when I see stupendously ignorant statements (not yours Visceral).
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:20 PM
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Curious as to why the headers would cause a loss of power, could it be a tune issue?
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:34 AM
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Default MY VISIT TO CHAMPION MOTORSPORTS--INTERCOOLERS/Y PIPE HITTING MARKET & TURBOS SOON

Originally Posted by pasd18
Curious as to why the headers would cause a loss of power, could it be a tune issue?
Stef from Europipe explained it well in another forum.

In terms of the number The FVD headers dropped from stock headers in both peak wheel horsepower and peak wheel torque -- drops of 7 wheel hp and 14 wheel torque. But the bigger story is that there are very large drops from stock in the lower part of the rev range. For example, at 3850 RPMs he FVD headers made 32 less wheel horsepower and 44 less wheel torque than the stock headers.

I will post the Dyno graph as soon as champion makes its formal release of its intercoolers with GIAC stage 2+. The reason is that the graph with the stock headers is my car is with the stage 2+ and the Champion intercoolers.

Also in terms of the numbers, my car Europipe made 10 less wheel horsepower and 35 less wheel torque then the champion test car made with Tubi catless on 93 octane. The 35 less wheel horsepower number is my car on 93 octane with Eurpopipe versus the Champion test 991 TTS with Tubi catless and race gas.

For a difference of 10 wheel hp and 35 wheel torque I am leaning towards keeping my Europipe which for me is a lot easier to live with than a catless exhaust in terms of volume of sound, neighbors, and inspections. But I'm still pondering.
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