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-   -   Land based cruise missile landed at Fabspeed Motorsport for product development (https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turbo/800941-land-based-cruise-missile-landed-at-fabspeed-motorsport-for-product-development.html)

[email protected] 02-18-2014 06:56 PM

Land based cruise missile landed at Fabspeed Motorsport : UPDATE
 
See page 4 for new product photos

This stunning White on Red 991 Turbo just got dropped off here at Fabspeed Motorsport HQ for baseline testing and product development! We see a huge amount of potential here just after our initial observations and getting the car up in the air :evilgrin:

We are excited to become a part of the rapidly growing 991 Turbo and 991 GT3 community :rockon:

Stay tuned for exciting Photos, Videos and product information in the weeks to come!

http://i60.tinypic.com/16hn62c.jpg

[email protected] 02-19-2014 01:03 PM

Look at those headers and massive cats!! :evilgrin:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2lnfxmx.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/wui9vo.jpg

ajag 02-19-2014 07:14 PM

Looking forward to the power gains! :)

[email protected] 02-20-2014 04:13 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I had the car on the dyno last night, and this car did not disappoint.

I google searched 991 Turbo Dyno because I could not believe, at first, how much torque it made.

Remember these things (the non Turbo S cars) are rated at 524 ft. lbs from the factory, with Sport Chrono/overboost.

Porsche is always conservative. I bet in 100 degree heat the thing will still make 524 ft. lbs.

The only graph I found was Champions, which starts at 3000 - I found that rather odd for this car. They also dyno'ed in 4th gear, which is not the closest ratio to 1:1 on the 7spd PDK cars. On a Mustang dyno they recorded 456 ft. lbs of torque to the rear wheels. Judging by the graph, the gear they chose, and their location (Florida), my guess is that a combination of the hotter weather, high rpm start point, and higher gear ratio did not allow the car to build boost quick enough to make the torque that we did at Fabspeed on our AWD Dynojet. I would also be curious to know how they were getting their rpm signal - if it was calculated based off drum speed, or if they were actually grabbing it from a signal from the car. For those that do not know much about dyno's, Mustang dynos allow you to calculate vehicle rpm based on wheel speed - you must input such things as gear ratio, final drive ratio, and tire circumference, and the software back-calculates rpm, and then calculates torque from this. It is far from the most accurate way, but some of these newer cars are a pain to get an accurate tach signal from, especially Porsches that have very difficult coil pack access. We use an EZ-RPM module that receives pulses from the alternator.

Anyway, onto the good stuff. Below is our graph from a bone stock 991 Turbo non S. We did multiple runs, and did 2 4th gear pulls as well as 5th gear pulls. One of the lines below (runfile 6) was done in normal mode. Very impressive numbers. Very similar graphs to the 997.2 Turbo S cars that we've dyno'ed.

Run conditions:
All runs were performed with high powered Bapro fans in front (22,000 CFM)

One Minuteman Rapidair Carpet blower in each intercooler duct (60 mph velocity but not a lot of CFM)

Water misting in each intercooler duct in order to prevent heat soak and repeatedly/accurately determine factory power levels

68.7 degrees in the dyno room

Maximum overboost pressure achieved via OBD2 datalogging was 18.6psi

Runs started at 1600rpm due to factory claimed torque peak which starts at 1950 – need a few hundred rpm while throttle is “rolled into” to prevent downshift, even in Sport Plus/Manual mode

1Gunner 02-20-2014 06:22 PM

subscribed!

:cheers:

Snorman 02-20-2014 08:58 PM

Chris...please excuse my ignorance in advance.
Can you confirm which pulls were in 4th and which pulls were in 5th gear?
I'm guessing that #5 and #6 are 4th gear pulls with #6 in "Normal" mode and #8 and #9 are in 5th.

ColdList 02-20-2014 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by Snorman (Post 11151960)
Chris...please excuse my ignorance in advance.
Can you confirm which pulls were in 4th and which pulls were in 5th gear?
I'm guessing that #5 and #6 are 4th gear pulls with #6 in "Normal" mode and #8 and #9 are in 5th.

It's on the graph.

8&9-4th (Sport+)
5&6-5th (Sport+ / Normal)

Snorman 02-20-2014 09:36 PM


Originally Posted by ColdList (Post 11151983)
It's on the graph.

8&9-4th (Sport+)
5&6-5th (Sport+ / Normal)

Duh...thanks. Not sure how I missed that.
S.

ColdList 02-20-2014 11:13 PM


Originally Posted by Snorman (Post 11152075)
Duh...thanks. Not sure how I missed that.
S.

Trust me man. Surprised I saw it-lol ;)

SeanR 02-20-2014 11:17 PM

Whollychit. Tagscribing this one.

TAch Miami 02-20-2014 11:28 PM


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11151071)
It is far from the most accurate way, but some of these newer cars are a pain to get an accurate tach signal from, especially Porsches that have very difficult coil pack access. We use an EZ-RPM module that receives pulses from the alternator.

Wouldn't it be easier to clamp on an ignition wire off the ECU?

[email protected] 02-21-2014 10:55 AM


Originally Posted by TAch Miami (Post 11152380)
Wouldn't it be easier to clamp on an ignition wire off the ECU?

No, which is why the module we use is called "E-Z RPM". On certain cars we can use an inductive pickup on primary or secondary coil wires. We have a different pickup for each respective one. For example the new Mercedes E63 AMG I had to do this way, but the ECU and wire harness are right on top of the engine for easy access.

991Turbo_S 02-21-2014 12:44 PM

Please wash the salt off of the bottom of that beauty. -OCD

[email protected] 02-22-2014 03:28 PM

I pressure washed the engine underside and washed and detailed the car it's immaculate.
We have made a fabspeed Motorsport Maxflo race exhaust that is 2.75" 70mm with our cast stainless X pipe and no catalytic converters.
Next up HJS Germany Sports racing trimetalic catalytic converters with our Maxflo exhaust.

All the above will unleash power and sports car sound. The stock 991TT has 2 ceramic cats on each exhaust bank and going to larger 200 cell HJS HD cats will unleash power with no check engine lights and NO tunes required to eliminate cel lights.

We are also designing Quad tips and headers for this special car. If anyone you are closely our facility cruise by for a tour of fabspeed Motorsports USA.

More pictures to come..

JoeNo 02-23-2014 03:17 AM

We are also designing Quad tips and headers for this special car. If anyone you are closely our facility cruise by for a tour of fabspeed Motorsports USA.

More pictures to come..[/QUOTE]

The next time I'm in Malvern, Pa to visit my parents, I'll plan a trip to come take a tour.

Back in 2004,I bought exhaust from you guys for my non turbo 996 and used a private wrench for the install.

Who do recommend for the installation, dealer or private shop for the 991TT?

Can't wait for the sound bite!!

[email protected] 02-24-2014 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by JoeNo (Post 11158125)
The next time I'm in Malvern, Pa to visit my parents, I'll plan a trip to come take a tour.

Back in 2004,I bought exhaust from you guys for my non turbo 996 and used a private wrench for the install.

Who do recommend for the installation, dealer or private shop for the 991TT?

Can't wait for the sound bite!!

Joe,

We have a list of installers by area code that I can access for a customer who is looking for a reputable independent shop or a dealer to do an installation of our products.

Also, when you are planning on coming down to Malvern, shoot me a PM and I will make sure I put aside some time to show you around the facility! That goes for anyone else who is interested in stopping by as well!

JoeNo 02-24-2014 03:26 PM


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11161896)
Joe,

We have a list of installers by area code that I can access for a customer who is looking for a reputable independent shop or a dealer to do an installation of our products.

Also, when you are planning on coming down to Malvern, shoot me a PM and I will make sure I put aside some time to show you around the facility! That goes for anyone else who is interested in stopping by as well!

Thanks, I'll pm you

[email protected] 02-25-2014 12:25 PM

Here is a crappy cell phone teaser! X-pipe and catbypass pipes

991Turbo_S 02-25-2014 12:47 PM

Nice! It has a nice bite to it.

[email protected] 02-25-2014 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by 991Turbo_S (Post 11165015)
Nice! It has a nice bite to it.

It sounds Really good. Actually, I was surprised at how nice it sounds since they are naturally quiet cars. This is what the turbo needs to really transform it!

[email protected] 02-25-2014 06:29 PM

An actual video..


JoeNo 02-25-2014 08:10 PM


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11166094)
An actual video..


Well that sounds alot better. Do you notice a difference in Sport and Sport+ mode?

[email protected] 02-26-2014 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by JoeNo (Post 11166396)
Well that sounds alot better. Do you notice a difference in Sport and Sport+ mode?

There is definitely a noticeable sound difference, but not a total night and day change. I will try to include that in the next video.

1Gunner 02-26-2014 12:14 PM

Sound is good, not a fan of the "trumpet" style aftermarket tips.
IMO stock tips better suit the car, so it's nice to have the choice!!

:cheers:

[email protected] 02-26-2014 01:59 PM


Originally Posted by 1Gunner (Post 11168126)
Sound is good, not a fan of the "trumpet" style aftermarket tips.
IMO stock tips better suit the car, so it's nice to have the choice!!

:cheers:

We will also offer an angled single outlet GT2 style tip which should suite the car very well!

Snorman 02-26-2014 07:42 PM


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11168447)
We will also offer an angled single outlet GT2 style tip which should suite the car very well!

While it's a "GT2 style" tip (assuming similar to a 993 GT2), will it closely fit the shaped opening of the lower fascia as the stock tips do?
S.

[email protected] 03-04-2014 02:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Little R & D teaser

RINGMEISTER27 03-05-2014 05:29 AM

Ferocious!

Evan, do you plan on a cat bypass product and a side muffler delete for the future??

In for updates.

[email protected] 03-05-2014 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by RINGMEISTER27 (Post 11187149)
Ferocious!

Evan, do you plan on a cat bypass product and a side muffler delete for the future??

In for updates.

:evilgrin::evilgrin: Muahaha!!! I've got to keep you guys in suspense lol!! But in all seriousness, there are no side mufflers on the 991, but we are working on a muffler bypass set up as well.

RINGMEISTER27 03-05-2014 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11187579)
:evilgrin::evilgrin: Muahaha!!! I've got to keep you guys in suspense lol!! But in all seriousness, there are no side mufflers on the 991, but we are working on a muffler bypass set up as well.

Boom!

[email protected] 03-06-2014 04:16 PM

1 Attachment(s)
:corn:

Fixinbones 03-06-2014 05:35 PM


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11191336)
:corn:

Thats just mean!! Where r the numbers?

[email protected] 03-07-2014 03:29 AM

1 Attachment(s)
So far we've tested 2 of our exhaust configurations. The first was our HJS 200 cell Sportcats. We didn't expect huge gains from just the cats alone, but what we did expect was delivered - quicker spooling of the turbochargers. The factory cats, while having a high cell count, work extremely well. However, Turbo cars just love it when you get rid of some backpressure. They respond by spooling faster, which translates to torque & horsepower graphs with even greater areas under the curves.

Just bolting on a set of 200 Cell HJS Sportcats gives you a slight increase in exhaust volume (the increase in sound over stock is comparable to what you gain when pushing the Sport Plus button). It will also give you your peak torque approximately 200 rpm sooner. For example, if you floored the throttle at 1600rpm, by 2100rpm, you have 100 ft. lbs of torque more. Peak power was up 5whp and peak torque was up 13 ft. lbs to the wheels.

[email protected] 03-07-2014 03:42 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The second configuration we tested was our 70mm Supersport X-Pipe, with the 200 Cell Sportcats. This setup sounds GREAT. Awesome burbles on downshifts. And it performs much better than the factory setup. At 2102rpm, we are seeing an extra 3.74 psi of boost over stock. If you look closely at the boost curve (below the horsepower/torque graph) you can see the steeper slope of the blue line. This translated to an extra 138 ft. lbs. of torque to the wheels at 2102rpm, because the turbo's could spool that much quicker. Peak horsepower was up 15whp, and peak torque 36 ft. lbs to the wheels. Exhaust backpressure was reduced by approximately 1.5 psi with the removal of the factory rear muffler, and the addition of our 70mm Supersport X-Pipe.

RINGMEISTER27 03-07-2014 06:16 AM

WOW.

[email protected] 03-07-2014 09:33 AM


Originally Posted by RINGMEISTER27 (Post 11192928)
WOW.

I didn't keep you waiting for nothing!! The car hasn't left the dyno yet ;)

Ray S 03-07-2014 10:43 AM

Great thread!!

ajag 03-07-2014 10:43 AM

Better than expected, I can't wait! :)

[email protected] 03-07-2014 11:12 AM


Originally Posted by ajag (Post 11193283)
Better than expected, I can't wait! :)

608 ft.lbs!!!! This car will be an absolute BEAST :bowdown:

FastLaneTurbo 03-07-2014 03:36 PM

Very Interesting Data - Thanks for Posting. I would really like to see what a Stock Turbo S would Dyno at. Hopefully one of our members would loan you a TTS to test.
My understanding is that the hardware is exactly the same on both Engines with only a Software Boost increase separating the 520 HP of the TT from the 560 HP of the TTS.
Further narrowing the performance of both engines, the Turbo has a wider HP and Torque Range when compared with the Turbo S. Comparing Porsche’s Specifications:


** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 991 Turbo* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 991 Turbo S* * * *
Max HP * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 520 HP @* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 560 HP
RPM Range for Max HP * * * * * 6,000 - 6,500* RPM* * * * * * * * * * * * 6,500 - 6,750* RPM
Max HP Range Width * * * * * * * * 500 RPM * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 250 RPM
Max Torque* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 487 Lb Ft* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 516* Lb Ft
Max Torque Range * * * * * * * * * 1,950 - 5,000 RPM* * * * * * * * * * * * 2,100 - 4,250 RPM
Range Width * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 3,050 RPM* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 2,150 RPM* *
Compression Ratio * * * * * * * * * * * 9.8 : 1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 9.8 : 1

Max Torque with Overboost * * * * 524 Lb Ft * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 553 Lb Ft* * * *
Max OB Torque Range* * * * * * * * 2,100 - 4,250* RPM* * * * * * * * * * * * 2,200 - 4,000* RPM
OB Torque Range Width* * * * * * * 2,150 RPM 1,800 RPM

Please note that although the Turbo S makes 7.7% more HP and 6% more Torque than the Turbo, the Turbo recaptures much of that advantage by making its max HP 8% earlier than the TTS and holding it over a* 100% wider RPM range. Similarly, the Turbo makes its Spec Torque 8% earlier than the TTS and holds it over a* 42% wider Torque Range. Both models increase their Torque by 8% in the overboost range, but again the Turbo's Overboost Torque starts earlier than the TTS and stays later widening the TTS OB Torque range by 19.4%.*

On public roads, the small performance increase at Higher RPM of the Turbo S is unlikely to be noticed by the huge*majority of owners in a lifetime of driving. On most U.S. Tracks, I believe laptimes of both models are likely to be within a few tenths* of seconds.
You would really be helping Rennlist members trying to decide between the TT and TTS
by providing actual Dyno Data. Many Thanks again for your very informative posts.

MMH78 03-08-2014 12:21 AM

I would also like to see the difference between TT and TTS. Will definitely help in choosing between the two.

TB993tt 03-08-2014 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by FastLaneTurbo (Post 11194099)
My understanding is that the hardware is exactly the same on both Engines with only a Software Boost increase separating the 520 HP of the TT from the 560 HP of the TTS.
.

The Turbo S has some different hardware to support the higher rev limit including different conrods.

FastLaneTurbo 03-08-2014 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by FastLaneTurbo View Post
My understanding is that the hardware is exactly the same on both Engines with only a Software Boost increase separating the 520 HP of the TT from the 560 HP of the TTS.
.
TB993tt: "The Turbo S has some different hardware to support the higher rev limit including different con rods."

Hi TB993tt, Can you tell us how you know that? And where we can we confirm that? Thank you.
__________________

TB993tt 03-09-2014 06:45 AM

The power of Google never ceases to amaze ! I knew we talked about this on a Rennteam thread so googled "991 turbo s conrods" and it took me straight to the page on a 127 page thread :)

Here is the link for the S engine info:

http://fortyonesix.com/news/1320/por...ers-turbo-s-fo

RINGMEISTER27 03-09-2014 06:49 AM

Rennlist investigators, ftw!

FastLaneTurbo 03-10-2014 11:46 AM


Originally Posted by TB993tt (Post 11197584)
The power of Google never ceases to amaze ! I knew we talked about this on a Rennteam thread so googled "991 turbo s conrods" and it took me straight to the page on a 127 page thread :)

Here is the link for the S engine info:

http://fortyonesix.com/news/1320/por...ers-turbo-s-fo

TB993tt, Thank you. I did read that article previously - but "Rennteam" insists it is incorrect posting this on 10-08-2013:
"1. Engine hardware is the same.
2. According to rumors, Porsche chooses "better" engines (those with better "pressure" results in the dry test, I don't know how to explain it in German) for the Turbo S.
3. Software is different but it is almost impossible to switch a Turbo to the Turbo S software because not only the engine ECU is affected but many other control units too. It cannot be excluded that a tuner finds a way to do that but it is almost impossible that that tuner adjusts ALL control units to the new engine software.
4. Turbo S has a higher rev limit and a slightly louder exhaust/engine sound (sound symposer programmed slightly different). This is software related only."

And again on 10-15-2013 after reading that article per your post, Rennteam posted:
"I hate to repeat myself but let's do it again: The engine hardware is 100% the SAME. "

And later that same day, Rennteam posted again:
"The information about the pistons/conrods is NOT correct. The engine hardware is 100% the same."

So, the question continues, Who is correct? Rennteam or the reporter who wrote that report?:crying:
  *

FastLaneTurbo 03-10-2014 12:07 PM

References for my post above can be found here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turb...d-turbo-s.html

TB993tt 03-10-2014 12:23 PM

Oops, I'm slightly embarrassed now, I forgot totally about those other post :o

I think the discussion was, is the 991 turbo S different to the 991 turbo (in terms of pistons and conrods) or did that Porsche engineer mean that the 991 is different to the 997 Turbo but the journo misinterpreted this..... Certainly RC of Rennteam is convinced it is the latter.
It would make sense for both the 991 turbo versions to have the same internals and would cost no more for the 991 turbo to have the same pistons and rods as the 991 turbo S - so I will go with your original version - software differences only :thumbup:

[email protected] 03-17-2014 10:54 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Video coming soon!

[email protected] 03-21-2014 09:59 AM

Go check out the official release thread if you haven't already!


ajag 03-23-2014 07:24 PM

3 Attachment(s)
My quick review after a couple days with the car:

Significantly louder, sounds like a monster now, snarling, popping backfires, etc. Turbos spool up faster, the car is noticeably quicker on the butt dyno (corroborates the real dyno plots). I can't wait to track this thing, in sport+ on normal streets it feels like a pit bull straining against a rapidly fraying leash. :)

I got the dual tips in flat black, looks great. Also mounted the P101s, so I'll be washing her up sometime this week and taking pics.

SamFromTX 03-23-2014 10:52 PM


Originally Posted by ajag (Post 11237055)
My quick review after a couple days with the car:

Significantly louder, sounds like a monster now, snarling, popping backfires, etc. Turbos spool up faster, the car is noticeably quicker on the butt dyno (corroborates the real dyno plots). I can't wait to track this thing, in sport+ on normal streets it feels like a pit bull straining against a rapidly fraying leash. :)

I got the dual tips in flat black, looks great. Also mounted the P101s, so I'll be washing her up sometime this week and taking pics.

Sooooo awesome, love it. Man, now I want one again. Enjoy it!

ajag 03-24-2014 08:04 AM


Originally Posted by SamFromTX (Post 11237566)
Sooooo awesome, love it. Man, now I want one again. Enjoy it!

Thanks Sam, don't worry you'll forget all about it when your GT3 is running again! Have they scheduled you for the fix yet?

[email protected] 03-24-2014 05:03 PM


Originally Posted by ajag (Post 11237055)
My quick review after a couple days with the car:

Significantly louder, sounds like a monster now, snarling, popping backfires, etc. Turbos spool up faster, the car is noticeably quicker on the butt dyno (corroborates the real dyno plots). I can't wait to track this thing, in sport+ on normal streets it feels like a pit bull straining against a rapidly fraying leash. :)

I got the dual tips in flat black, looks great. Also mounted the P101s, so I'll be washing her up sometime this week and taking pics.


Glad you enjoy it! That car sounds so good!!! It amazed me that there was NO drone with that set up :rockon:

Gofishracing 03-24-2014 05:29 PM

how many db's?

[email protected] 03-24-2014 10:01 PM

The 991TT is completely drive able with the 70 mm 2.75" High flow X pipe.
Each and every single Porsche twin turbo from the 993tt, 996tt, all 997tt cars are silent fast efficiency vacuum cleaners in terms of sports car sound.

A dyno developed high flow quality exhaust with mandatory HJS German trimetalic 200 cell sports racing catalytic converters allows mush faster turbo response spool up and power all in one system with NO check engine lights.

Beware of systems with questionable catalytic converters as you get what you pay for and HJS catalytic converters are the best parts and foundation for a quality Porsche twin turbo exhaust system.

FYI fabspeed Motorsport is HJS Germany's second largest volume purchaser of catalytic converters in the World. More than any other manufacturers in all of Germany and Italy !

The best parts are built and Tig welded right here in the USA .

SamFromTX 03-24-2014 10:37 PM


Originally Posted by ajag (Post 11238132)
Thanks Sam, don't worry you'll forget all about it when your GT3 is running again! Have they scheduled you for the fix yet?

Not yet. No one knows when for sure although rumors abound. I'm mentally prepared to be out through May though. In the interim, I will live vicariously through Turbo/TurboS owners like you :burnout:

[email protected] 03-31-2014 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by ajag (Post 11238132)
Thanks Sam, don't worry you'll forget all about it when your GT3 is running again! Have they scheduled you for the fix yet?

Hope you are enjoying your car! Heard you got some wheels.. throw up some pics!!!

[email protected] 05-15-2014 05:21 PM

5 Attachment(s)
We have just done another Turbo S in house with our full Fabspeed Performance package. This car was a local customers and the spec was just amazing!! How car these cars get any better?!

TT Surgeon 05-18-2014 06:34 PM

Now that's a nice looking car!

FastLaneTurbo 05-19-2014 12:26 PM

How did the Dyno readings and Torque Speed graphs compare on the Turbo vs the Turbo S?
Can you offer tuning on the Turbo to increase its Boost level to Turbo S values?
Many thanks for your input.

[email protected] 05-20-2014 02:52 PM


Originally Posted by FastLaneTurbo (Post 11378270)
How did the Dyno readings and Torque Speed graphs compare on the Turbo vs the Turbo S?
Can you offer tuning on the Turbo to increase its Boost level to Turbo S values?
Many thanks for your input.

We actually didn't have an opportunity to dyno test this one! I know that currently we are working closely with EVOMSit to develop a tune right now for the 991TT/S.

I know that we have a couple of other 991TTS coming in for the full package and I will see if we can get them on the dyno to compare the different models!


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