red route 1

My dealer just took in a GT2RS... came close to driving off with it ... but my 991 TT is still on order!

http://www.porscheofnorthhouston.com...Texas/8190914/

If you're interested call Rodger Gay. (888) 510-4711

Igooz

You should take it for a test drive!

red route 1

I did, and .... let's just say, it is a kick in the pants.

FastLaneTurbo

Good move. The 991 TTS makes more Torque, 524 Ft. Lbs vs the RS's 516, as does the TT in overboost.
From friends who bought GT2RS, they found they made very poor DDs, sold them quickly and returned to the far more comfortable Turbos. Congratulations and Best of luck with your 991 TT. I'm sure it will be a great car.

Carrera GT

That's useful to know. I had one ride-along in a GT2RS and found it rather underwhelming, perhaps because it's so refined. I'd not thought of it as a poor DD, other than frustrations of never using even 5% of its power. I guess it's a good thing for long term collectors, but the 2RS seems to have just plain dropped off the market.

I try to get a candid answer out of any person I meet with a 2RS or RS 4.0 and the answers seem to be pretty consistent:

2RS: doesn't driving it, expecting to sell it, just a car in the collection
RS 4.0: "the one" or "can I get another one if I seel?"
"other":
Aftermarket: Uncommon pursuit, but smart money.

I find the 2RS owner is in the process of disposing of it, or never drives it, while the RS 4.0 owner is debating this being a "keep it till the grave" or agonizing over the consequences of selling it and finding the 991 RS is a dud, then having no easy way back into a good RS 4.0.

But there is another population of people driving $150K+ track day cars and that is very much trending towards not buying a new Porsche -- not for any real issue with Porsches various and many offenses in the last five years, but that Porsche simply is not building a car to carry on the 997 in any capacity. So the conversation in that third group is not bogged down in the 991 GT3 or 991 RS being good or bad, it's just not a track car in their intended uses, so it's a matter of a McLaren or Ferrari or even a Corvette.

The fourth "catch all" group is interested in aftermarket paths to something equivalent to a 997.x RS or better. Things like seeing Sabine in her RS 3.8 which has been no doubt upgraded for safety and durable handling, you can see how things like clutch, coolant, intake, suspension, all get a "warming over" to be sure they're up to day after day of 7:30 "taxi" laps ... yes, she drives 7:30's with a passenger ... what a gal ... but back to my point, I think Porsche has perhaps hoist itself on its own petard by "locking down" the 991 to the point that after-market upgrades are increasingly difficult, they sent the aftermarket and their customer to the 997. And when I look at these customers as a whole, they tend to build their car and keep it. For years. That's not good business for a company wanting to revamp its models every two years.

Personally, I think the RS 3.8 is distinguishing itself as the thinking man's Porsche. Smarter than the 991 GT3. Demanding and challenging to the driver. Impeccable handling. Limits far beyond any amateur drive, well beyond 95% of pro drivers and certainly at or beyond human scale driving (in terms of top speed, apex speeds, braking performance and "what happens if I lose this into the scenery?" survivability and secondary safety. Superb retained resale value. Known quantity to set up as a reliable, durable daily driver, drive to the track or dedicated track day car.

I think all that adds up to my half baked explanation of RS markets. In my observation, it's something like this in terms of actually selling price of cars changing hands between earnest buyer and seller (disregarding dealer listed asking prices and not having ready access to wholesale auction prices) as a % of approximate MSRP. Yes, I'm sure there are those paying much higher and much lower, but these are case by case, not a representative sample of the market and I think it's such an illiquid and non-uniform market (since each car is different by mileage, equipment, history) that there's no sense in arguing over generalizations.

Percentage of MSRP as retained value in the secondary market:
RS 3.6 80%
RS 3.8 90%
RS 4.0 110%
2RS 90%

Which defines my only real question mark about the RS 3.8 (say versus the 997.1 RS 3.6) ... is it sane to be paying near MSRP for a two or three year old track day car? I think it's smart. But I can't say it's sane … : )

Igooz

+1...probably a poor DD if it is anything like my 7GT2...

But I would imagine that it would be noticeably faster than my 7GT2 which is already plenty fast...I would very much like to drive a GT2RS...I will wait until I find one with the right option and then go and test drive it since the outcome maybe a purchase!

red route 1

So my perspective -- i've owned 3 GT cars, 2 GT3's and one GT3RS. All great, the GT3RS had the most drama and of all my cars, put the most miles on it even though it was a constant pain in the a**.

The GT2RS was so docile until you got the revs up... lacked the constand drama which is good I guess for a DD, and I knew I'd never make the most of 620HP. Anyway, that's a car of the past, a great one perhaps, but i'm moving on.

carcommander

IMHO my '11 GT3RS did not make a very good DD either. I traded my 08 turbo in on it. I ultimately bought another turbo to go with it. I personally don't miss the GT3RS but then again I don't track my cars. Also the retention in value is not quite correct in unless you orderd a base car. Mine was a 165K I sold it 2 year ago for 135K. About base price.

Carrera GT

I just saw a real purchase of a 2011, msrp 13x, sell for 13x with CPO. But you're right that two years ago, well, that would have still be a near model year, so you were just experiencing the slippage in a market that was fully saturated at that time. Resale went down in 2011 and into 2012, then it's been going higher ever since, but that's consistent with a market where the balance has tipped in favor of the seller (a rare state in the auto industry for almost any car, even Ferrari.) Also a $165K msrp is the top end of the price range for a fully loaded car, but the market for the "lightweight" RS has been the lightweight spec and delete spec cars, which started at $13xK or $14xK and are in short supply today. Of course, if the 991 RS is a great tracl car amd wins over the stalwart analog driver, the 997's will soon fade into history and buyers will turn the page, dealers will stop speculating at the auctions, then prices will eventually resume their typical submission to gravity.

As for the RS as a daily driver, it's a marginal choice at best -- too noisy in the cabin and redline in 2nd gear is enough to end up face down on the asphalt with a Tazer in your kidneys and a jackboot on the back of your neck. But on the track, short of a Ducati, there's no more fun way to exercise the adrenal gland. : )

carcommander

As much fun as the cars are you are right about the Ducati. I have a Panigale S and the dynamics of that put the cars to shame. There is the risk however. :-)

Igooz

You guys are bikers too?!?!! What! and yes...there are the risks!
My touring bike is a ZX-14 with Givi hardbags...none of my cars can even come close to the BigZ!
My cafe bike is my old 916 monoposto that I bought new and kept, and can actually ride well! And the cruiser is of course, a Moto Guzzi Eldorado police bike and it keeps law and order on the other 7 Guzzis in the stable! (Guzzi = Igooz! )