tomshop

My dealer told me they got a Turbo S allocation but not a Turbo allocation. Not sure if that means the Turbo S is being released first.

JohnnyBahamas

Only thing stopping me from a base turbo is a manual transmission.

I'm looking at a used manual transmission Cayman with a TPC turbo kit instead.

VW/porsche can go choke on their PDK only decision.

Bastards.

Hussain

mgent

I think price may deter some, but the vast majority of turbo owners won't hesitate due to price... There's not a lot of people that can comfortably afford a 150-160k DD, but not 180-190... Either way, that's a ton of cash for a car...

Hussain

It is a ton of cash for a car, when $100k used to be the threshold for a really high performance car, $120k for a loaded Carrera S is steep as well.

For a DD though, the turbo S is just about the best you can get. For similar dollars you can get a MP4-12C which had an MSRP of $270-$300k. But you'd be hard pressed to daily drive that without too much attention.

SSST

If you can comfortably afford a 160k car you can easily afford a 200k car if it's what you want. Its a matter of utility, not affordability.

I think the emerging consensus is that it is too expensive for what it is.

Carrera GT

Talk to an experienced Porsche sales person -- I expect they'll tell you that actual, real world customers are price sensitive beyond about 5%. The kind of elasticity that allows some customers to pick from the menu at will is rare. If there were such indifferent buyers commonly choosing between models, Porsche and other makers wouldn't have their line-up at such close price levels. The only buyer willing to compare $150K with $200K is one insulated or deluded by lease or loan payment amounts being "only $300 more" etc.

It's a tough challenge: getting inside the decision-making process of a luxury car buyer. There's really no compelling value to buy the most expensive product on the shelf. I think it's universally accepted that the cheapest model in the line-up offers the greatest value and in the case of Porsche, even the cheapest Carrera is so much more car than anyone can use, anything above that level is just the self-indulgence of the buyer in a luxury product for which this is no need, only desire. But is that desire so blinding that it blurs a 30% price difference? I think rarely so.

I'm reminded of musing over a 993 C4S versus the turbo at the time. After much deliberation over exhaust note, throttle response, steering feel, weight, options, etc. etc. the sales person eventually gasped in disbelief: "Nobody chooses between the C4S and the turbo, if you can afford the turbo, you buy the turbo!" In that ham-fisted attempt to shove the customer up the price ladder, I think there is the kernel of truth.

Few people would buy the 991 turbo if they could afford the 991 turbo S, more will baulk at the price of both and perhaps begrudgingly "settle" for the turbo after some discount haggling to defray that initial depreciation hit, while others will blithely check every box on the suction (rhymes with "option") list for the turbo S and enjoy the feeling of paying a quarter million for a car that's for all intents and purposes indistinguishable from a Carrera at literally half the price. Porsche is "right" to offer a price point for the high end luxury buyer -- there's no moral victory in leaving that money on the table. It's not too relevant to the turbo forums of RL, but from my perspective, if there's buyers out there for the turbo S at a quarter mill or the 918 at $1M or the 960 at $300K+, then great, let them feed the R&D coffers and let's hope a lightweight "analog" 911 will happen again some day ... and on that cheery note, I think I'll do the brakes on the RS today ... I feel a track day coming on ...

TT Surgeon

Agree w cgt 100%
BTW, ford made the 289, 302 windsor and 302 cleveland (boss302), 351w, and 351cl as well. Chevy also had a 302, 327, 350, 400 small blocks. Most racing 350s were .030 over with a displacement of 355cid.

carcommander

I can afford a Turbo S but chose not to buy one. The reason? A turbo S does not offer enough additional performance to justify the additional 25k or so. That is just my reasoning. Turbos have always been expensive. My lightly optioned 08 was 134k. Porsche is charging what they think the market will stand. Is a 458 worth a 100k or so more? Only if you think it is and have the money to buy one. A Porsche of any level is an expensive car.

German_Saint

CGT- you hit the nail on the head.

997xpress

How do you like the 991S vs your previous 997TT? Trying to decide if the lack of torque/power is a real issue as I'm contemplating a purchase of one of those two cars. Is the 991S a PDK?

I came out of a 996TT so I have the turbo 'bug'

TIA...

mgent

CGT - I agree on the ~5% elasticity, however I would speculate that that range increases as the base price increases...

My previous example (150 vs 180) was assuming someone had a 997.2 turbo for 150, and was looking at a 991 Turbo for 180 - the 30k likely isn't going to change that buyer's mind. Same for Turbo S owners (180 vs 210). I do agree however that the spread between Turbo and Turbo S will make some thinking about upgrading to an S opt for a non-S, but that is likely more due to trying to rationalize the extra 30k, which in reality, is not a realistic exercise, as top the previous posters point, 120 for a 991 S would likely be more car than is ever used... Most purchasing a S vs a non-S are doing it because they want the top, and like many other luxury things in life, recognize it can't be rationalized and don't try to... Best example are the guys buying a GT Speed or SuperSport vs a standard BGT.. Is it really the performance? in a 6000lb car, really? its because its the top, and they don't care...

carcommander

My 991 is a PDK. At te time I bought it I owned a 997TT. I kept both for awhile and decided the 991 was more comfortable, was almost as fast, made a much better DD and was just as much fun to drive. The 991 is not a game changer just an evolution. I like the PDK. I think it is a game changer. Most of my cars for the last 30 years have been manuals. I think the PDK is better. Just my opinion. If love your TT wait until you don't and then get a 991. The 991 does not make the 997s obsolete IMO.

SSST

I think you are agreeing with me GTC. But I'm not sure.

Personally, I could afford a 200K car without any real problem, I am very well-heeled as they say, but short of filthy stinking rich. Cars are a minor passion of mine, but there are other expensive passions that are more important to me.

It's a personal utility matter. I can afford it, but I'm not willing to do so at the expense of other things that have more value to me personally.

Related to that is personal value. That's why I am perfectly satisfied with the 996tt. I have 60K tied up in it, and while I might enjoy a 991TTS a little more than my 996TT (I would really miss shifting though), I can promise I won't enjoy it $140K more.

That's just me personally. I fully realize that most people on this site get much more utility from their vehicle than I. There's no judgement in that. Just different strokes for different folks.

All that said, it sounds like the pricing of the new tt is above the personal utility curves of many long time enthusiasts.

Time will tell if there is enough demand for the car at the new price points.

Hussain

Perhaps the market trend may show the second hand market to be stronger for sales, and / or more turbo sales instead of turbo S. I don't think this is what Porsche thinks currently as the allocation numbers suggest many more S models than base. Perhaps that's just the initial allocation because the buzz will be more of the turbo S, and then later they will adjust. Either way, I think for the discerning crowd that can afford a $180-200k car that they want to daily drive without attracting too much attention, and have the maximum power / speed abilities, with the latest tech, this is the bee's knees.