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R&T 9 Facts About the 991 Turbo

 
Old 04-30-2013, 10:45 PM
  #1  
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Default R&T 9 Facts About the 991 Turbo

Posting here because there's no 991 Turbo forum ;-)

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/futur...sche-911-turbo

9 Things You Should Know About the New Porsche 911 Turbo
It's PDK-only and stupid fast. And that's not all.


By the Road & Track Staff April 30, 2013 / Photos by KGP Photography

1. It has active aero. A rubber tube similar to a bicycle tire runs along the underside of the front spoiler. In Sport Plus mode, it fills with air, extending downward as a spoiler to swap the 911’s inherent front-end lift for slight downforce. Top speed is limited to 196 mph on the Turbo S because it’s all the tires can handle—otherwise the new rocket would be capable of 207.

2. The optional ceramic brake discs measure 16.1 inches in front, 15.4 in the rear. In other words, they're enormous.

3. In the past, Turbo models used the Carrera 4’s wide body. This time, the Turbo is even wider. C4 models are 1.7 inches wider than the base 911; add another 1.1 inches for the Turbo!

4. Angry mobs, grab your pitchforks. There's no more manual—PDK is the only transmission now. The center differential is now a computer-controlled, water-cooled Haldex unit that can send 13 percent more power up front.

5. Additional boost (up to 17.4 psi) and additional revs (up to 7200) means additional power: the Turbo makes 520 hp and 479 lb-ft. The Turbo S makes 560 hp and 516 lb-ft. Each motor gets an overboost function, producing another 37 lb-ft for up to ten seconds.

6. Like the GT3, the 911 Turbo uses rear active steering for more maneuverability at low speeds and more stability at high speeds.

7. The Turbo’s roof can be painted, made of glass, or made of carbon fiber, a la the GT3 Cup car.

8. Not that anyone cares, but the Turbo uses some 13% less fuel than the last one. Partial thanks go to the virtual-gear programming in the PDK that uses clutch slippage to “fake” an appropriate gear ratio. It aims to keeps revs near 1000 rpm under low-speed, low-load conditions. Start/stop is standard, and now turns the engine off under 4 mph.

9. The last Turbo and Turbo S flew around the Nürburgring in 7:39 and 7:37, respectively. The new car does it in under 7:30, meaning it could match the Carrera GT’s 7:25. Look for a 0-60 time of around 3 seconds flat.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:53 PM
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Mike in CA
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Wonder what the MSRP will be?
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
Wonder what the MSRP will be?
No kidding...
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:00 AM
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It's gonna be steep. I believe the GT3 base price increased almost $15k, if memory serves the turbo base price was $137k, so perhaps $152k for turbo and $175k for turbo S? Just speculation still at this point on those base prices. The next four months should be very interesting.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:04 AM
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I'm hearing a huge jump in pricing for the new turbo. Like 185k or somesuch.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:40 AM
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The 997 Turbo and Turbo S has been removed from the 911 Selection on the Porsche.com website. (although it is still in the configurator section) Considering the removal of the Turbo from the Porsche product line for the first time in the last decade, and the increasing frequency of semi-official "leaks"
to Sportscar magazines on the new 991 Turbo's specs, it appears to me Porsche has made a strategic decision to advance the introduction date so not to lose Supercar sales to the new Corvette, Viper, McLaren, Ferrari. Lamborghini and GT-R Models. Anyone share that conclusion?
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:25 AM
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I haven't followed the Turbo that closely although I thought there were times between model changes when there was no TT available for a period of time. Maybe I'm wrong. Speculation has been a debut at Frankfurt in September; deliveries by Spring 2014. That still sounds right to me.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by FastLaneTurbo View Post
The 997 Turbo and Turbo S has been removed from the 911 Selection on the Porsche.com website. (although it is still in the configurator section) Considering the removal of the Turbo from the Porsche product line for the first time in the last decade, and the increasing frequency of semi-official "leaks"
to Sportscar magazines on the new 991 Turbo's specs, it appears to me Porsche has made a strategic decision to advance the introduction date so not to lose Supercar sales to the new Corvette, Viper, McLaren, Ferrari. Lamborghini and GT-R Models. Anyone share that conclusion?
Conclusion or conjecture?

Hard to say. I vaguely remember the same game plan for the 996 Turbo / GT2 and later the 997 Turbo. I certainly remember the same behavior for other Porsche introductions where Porsche was arguably trying to test the market for price, demand and elasticity in rather ham-fisted attempts to sound out the speculators and "first kid on the block" suckers.

Keep in mind that the Turbo (Carrera, Cayenne or Panamera) since the departure from air-cooled 911's, have been abysmal losers on resale value. Great cars in their own right. Terribly expensive motoring. These cars start out at luxury, exotic pricing and far too quickly descend to family minivan prices. You really have to be addicted to status symbol motoring to buy these cars early in their model years before the dealers relent and start selling at 30% discounts just to move the rusting iron off their lots.

Much as I find the confluence of techno-uber-supermacht in the 991 to favor the turbo more than the GT3, I just don't see myself paying anywhere near the 997 turbo prices (let alone whatever absurd prices Porsche might ask for the 991) for a car that will, well, to get an idea of the cost of first year ownership, simply look at 2012 turbo prices today, just one year on the market and still practically the current offering. Even if you ignore taxes and costs to update, if you like the turbo and want to keep driving it beyond the first year and a few thousand miles, you're paying huge incremental costs. Porsche seems to think (or hope) their customers will make purchases oblivious to the costs.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by frayed View Post
I'm hearing a huge jump in pricing for the new turbo. Like 185k or somesuch.
The only model in my opinion that would be that kind of money is a Turbo S with PCCB's and all the other expensive options.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Nizer View Post
Posting here because there's no 991 Turbo forum ;-)

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/futur...sche-911-turbo

9 Things You Should Know About the New Porsche 911 Turbo
It's PDK-only and stupid fast. And that's not all.


By the Road & Track Staff April 30, 2013 / Photos by KGP Photography

1. It has active aero. A rubber tube similar to a bicycle tire runs along the underside of the front spoiler. In Sport Plus mode, it fills with air, extending downward as a spoiler to swap the 911’s inherent front-end lift for slight downforce. Top speed is limited to 196 mph on the Turbo S because it’s all the tires can handle—otherwise the new rocket would be capable of 207.

2. The optional ceramic brake discs measure 16.1 inches in front, 15.4 in the rear. In other words, they're enormous.

3. In the past, Turbo models used the Carrera 4’s wide body. This time, the Turbo is even wider. C4 models are 1.7 inches wider than the base 911; add another 1.1 inches for the Turbo!

4. Angry mobs, grab your pitchforks. There's no more manual—PDK is the only transmission now. The center differential is now a computer-controlled, water-cooled Haldex unit that can send 13 percent more power up front.

5. Additional boost (up to 17.4 psi) and additional revs (up to 7200) means additional power: the Turbo makes 520 hp and 479 lb-ft. The Turbo S makes 560 hp and 516 lb-ft. Each motor gets an overboost function, producing another 37 lb-ft for up to ten seconds.

6. Like the GT3, the 911 Turbo uses rear active steering for more maneuverability at low speeds and more stability at high speeds.

7. The Turbo’s roof can be painted, made of glass, or made of carbon fiber, a la the GT3 Cup car.

8. Not that anyone cares, but the Turbo uses some 13% less fuel than the last one. Partial thanks go to the virtual-gear programming in the PDK that uses clutch slippage to “fake” an appropriate gear ratio. It aims to keeps revs near 1000 rpm under low-speed, low-load conditions. Start/stop is standard, and now turns the engine off under 4 mph.

9. The last Turbo and Turbo S flew around the Nürburgring in 7:39 and 7:37, respectively. The new car does it in under 7:30, meaning it could match the Carrera GT’s 7:25. Look for a 0-60 time of around 3 seconds flat.
would not be a shock if #8 is part of the reason for the GT3 as well. They must keep MPG moving up for the greens. Would bet it can not be accomplished with manual.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hussain View Post
The only model in my opinion that would be that kind of money is a Turbo S with PCCB's and all the other expensive options.
Bet you a beer right now that a 991 Turbo S with expensive options including PCCB will easily top $200K.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
Bet you a beer right now that a 991 Turbo S with expensive options including PCCB will easily top $200K.
I am hopeful that you will lose that bet, Mike. I used the Porsche car configurator to "build" a 991 GT3 with comparable options to my 2010 GT3 (with the obvious exception of the transmission), and the resulting 991 GT3 is $15K more than my 2010 GT3's MSRP of $131K, or 11.5% higher.

My fully optioned up 2011 Turbo S cab had an MSRP of $178K, but if I recall correctly, a 2011 Turbo S cab listed for about $10K more than a coupe version. Applying an 11.5% increase to the 2011 coupe price would yield a well optioned 991 Turbo S coupe price of around $188K or so. Of course, this assumes Porsche uses similar pricing logic for the 991 Turbo S as it has for the 991 GT3.

I fully expect for the above analysis to be wrong, but I try to be optimistic.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:50 PM
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Mike in CA
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John, it may come down to what someone considers "all the expensive options", as Hussain wrote in his post. Winding Road recently optioned a 991 GT3 out at $187K!

I don't think you'll have to go to great extremes to get a 991 TTS over $200K, but if you're in the market one, for your sake I hope I'm wrong too!
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
John, it may come down to what someone considers "all the expensive options", as Hussain wrote in his post. Winding Road recently optioned a 991 GT3 out at $187K!

I don't think you'll have to go to great extremes to get a 991 TTS over $200K, but if you're in the market one, for your sake I hope I'm wrong too!
Thanks, Mike. The only saving grace is that at least on my 2011 Turbo S, quite a few things were included as standard equipment such as PCCB's, PDK, leather dash, etc. That still leaves plenty of other options to run the price up, and I doubt that it will be difficult to get over $200K that way.

Last edited by jfr0317; 05-02-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:44 PM
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That's exactly what I meant as well. $185k gets you a turbo S with PCCB's standard. I do think it will approach $200k with the exclusive options, carbon fiber this and that and deviated stitching knick knacks. I hope it's less but it's probably not likely. The other thing to consider for prospective buyers is the other cars that you can get in the same price range. But that's a whole other ball of wax.
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