991 Turbo -- what do you think?
05-21-2013, 12:57 PM
#77
Burning Brakes
OWNERSHIP COSTS
2012 Porsche Turbo @ MSRP of $ 138.450
http://www.nadaguides.com/cars/2012/...bo/cost-to-own
2013 Nissan Black Edition @ MSRP of $107,320
http://www.nadaguides.com/cars/2013/...on/cost-to-own
2012 Porsche Turbo @ MSRP of $ 138.450
http://www.nadaguides.com/cars/2012/...bo/cost-to-own
2013 Nissan Black Edition @ MSRP of $107,320
http://www.nadaguides.com/cars/2013/...on/cost-to-own
05-24-2013, 09:21 AM
#78
I like the look. The materials and such are super neat. Lights are going 996. 
But I have two major concerns:
complexity and cost.
Some thoughts as a turbo owner: hydraulic wings.... coolant bonding "hi tech".... dead nav radio.......
But my auto wipers and alarm have been fine. Actually, the auto wipers don't work that well...added some extra alarms stuff....
jeff
But I have two major concerns:
complexity and cost.
Some thoughts as a turbo owner: hydraulic wings.... coolant bonding "hi tech".... dead nav radio.......
But my auto wipers and alarm have been fine. Actually, the auto wipers don't work that well...added some extra alarms stuff....
jeff
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 05-24-2013 at 06:22 PM.
05-26-2013, 10:02 PM
#79
time to move on ... to a 991 Turbo
Interesting all the comments about the 991 turbo/s:
1. "it's ugly" -- a question of whether the styling appeals, to each his own. Every generation seems to have this concern.
2. "it's not faster than every car out there, and cheaper cars go as fast or faster" -- we are talking about a car that was not designed for tracking, unlike the GT3, and even then we're talking tenths of seconds, and frankly, I want a rear engine Porsche, not a Nissan.
3. "Porsche has betrayed us" ... with too much technology, no MT, more comfortable (panamera) cabin, PDCC that can kill you, etc. The 993 devotees are still saying this stuff about the 996/7 water cooled engine. Change is not good for everyone.
4. "it's expensive" -- the 991 turbo price is approximately the same as what I paid for my 997.2 turbo s, for a car that is stiffer and approximately the same horsepower (520hp vs. 530hp). Depending on your view per the other points above, the 991 is arguably just a better 911.
5. "Porsche is just in it for the money" -- were they ever a not-for-profit?
6. All of the above comments mixed together to make the point that you don't like the car and wont ever buy one. An amazing amount of anger -- if you don't want it, it's ok not to buy one.
As for me I have made peace with the tail lights and think overall this turbo is better looking than the 997 turbos i owned. I hated the bug-eyes up front and the carerra (not-S) tail pipes. I hated the squeeks and chassis flex -- only my GT3's were without it. I still miss the "busy/noisy/squirrely" steering of the 997 but I'm getting used to the 9914S I own now -- still dead-on precise, without communicating every last thing that is on the road surface.
For me this looks like the most put-together 991 to date and I cant wait for the one I just ordered.
1. "it's ugly" -- a question of whether the styling appeals, to each his own. Every generation seems to have this concern.
2. "it's not faster than every car out there, and cheaper cars go as fast or faster" -- we are talking about a car that was not designed for tracking, unlike the GT3, and even then we're talking tenths of seconds, and frankly, I want a rear engine Porsche, not a Nissan.
3. "Porsche has betrayed us" ... with too much technology, no MT, more comfortable (panamera) cabin, PDCC that can kill you, etc. The 993 devotees are still saying this stuff about the 996/7 water cooled engine. Change is not good for everyone.
4. "it's expensive" -- the 991 turbo price is approximately the same as what I paid for my 997.2 turbo s, for a car that is stiffer and approximately the same horsepower (520hp vs. 530hp). Depending on your view per the other points above, the 991 is arguably just a better 911.
5. "Porsche is just in it for the money" -- were they ever a not-for-profit?
6. All of the above comments mixed together to make the point that you don't like the car and wont ever buy one. An amazing amount of anger -- if you don't want it, it's ok not to buy one.
As for me I have made peace with the tail lights and think overall this turbo is better looking than the 997 turbos i owned. I hated the bug-eyes up front and the carerra (not-S) tail pipes. I hated the squeeks and chassis flex -- only my GT3's were without it. I still miss the "busy/noisy/squirrely" steering of the 997 but I'm getting used to the 9914S I own now -- still dead-on precise, without communicating every last thing that is on the road surface.
For me this looks like the most put-together 991 to date and I cant wait for the one I just ordered.
05-28-2013, 09:27 PM
#81
Trucker
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Thread Starter
I am sure that the 991TT will look great in person. And the price is up...but OK...And I hope Porsche makes a lot of profit so that they can spend more on their R&D budget. BEST WISHES!
But I am very disappointed in the Porsche Product Planners and their Strategy team for not making the MT available as an Option...Last week I read the first write-up on the 991GT2 and that it will also be only PDK...I know all the merits of PDK (& I even own a Tip TT for DD) but I am sorry...I (we) wanted to have the 6MT available at least as an option...If the MT was going to go away I would have loved to get a sequential shifter in the GT2!
I will buy another clean/low mileage 996 GT2 something raw where I get to communicate with the car and vice versa...the human-machine-interface without all the electronics filters and software...Sorry...just disappointed...
I may have bought my last new Porsche...But I am sure that the Consulting Company XYZ that Porsche uses has me tagged as a "dinasour" and not one of their "target" customers...I just wish they knew how much money I have spent with them in the last 20years and how many of my friends have bought 911's because of dinasours like me...
But I am very disappointed in the Porsche Product Planners and their Strategy team for not making the MT available as an Option...Last week I read the first write-up on the 991GT2 and that it will also be only PDK...I know all the merits of PDK (& I even own a Tip TT for DD) but I am sorry...I (we) wanted to have the 6MT available at least as an option...If the MT was going to go away I would have loved to get a sequential shifter in the GT2!
I will buy another clean/low mileage 996 GT2 something raw where I get to communicate with the car and vice versa...the human-machine-interface without all the electronics filters and software...Sorry...just disappointed...
I may have bought my last new Porsche...But I am sure that the Consulting Company XYZ that Porsche uses has me tagged as a "dinasour" and not one of their "target" customers...I just wish they knew how much money I have spent with them in the last 20years and how many of my friends have bought 911's because of dinasours like me...
05-30-2013, 01:10 PM
#82
If I am going to miss anything it's MT in the GT3 and Turbos. But it's still there on the C2/4, for now, and my last car (a 991 C2S) had it and was great fun to drive, and nostalgic. Still I'm ok to move on, I really like the coast mode and Sport Plus mode in the PDK with Sport Chrono, better control of transmission engagement and revs, without the third pedal. And I'm no track expert so there's no way I can shift faster than PDK.
05-30-2013, 01:14 PM
#83
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This is the same conclusion I came up with myself. Every sports car I've ever had has been a manual and the reason I didn't sell my 997.1 Turbo for so long was because I didn't want to part with the manual. When I saw the 991 with the 7MT option, I was excited for what the turbo might bring.
From E39 M5, to 996 C2, 996 turbo, and 997 turbo, I'll miss the manual for than anything. Times, have and always will, change.
From E39 M5, to 996 C2, 996 turbo, and 997 turbo, I'll miss the manual for than anything. Times, have and always will, change.
06-07-2013, 03:38 PM
#84
Interesting all the comments about the 991 turbo/s:
1. "it's ugly" -- a question of whether the styling appeals, to each his own. Every generation seems to have this concern.
2. "it's not faster than every car out there, and cheaper cars go as fast or faster" -- we are talking about a car that was not designed for tracking, unlike the GT3, and even then we're talking tenths of seconds, and frankly, I want a rear engine Porsche, not a Nissan.
3. "Porsche has betrayed us" ... with too much technology, no MT, more comfortable (panamera) cabin, PDCC that can kill you, etc. The 993 devotees are still saying this stuff about the 996/7 water cooled engine. Change is not good for everyone.
4. "it's expensive" -- the 991 turbo price is approximately the same as what I paid for my 997.2 turbo s, for a car that is stiffer and approximately the same horsepower (520hp vs. 530hp). Depending on your view per the other points above, the 991 is arguably just a better 911.
5. "Porsche is just in it for the money" -- were they ever a not-for-profit?
6. All of the above comments mixed together to make the point that you don't like the car and wont ever buy one. An amazing amount of anger -- if you don't want it, it's ok not to buy one.
As for me I have made peace with the tail lights and think overall this turbo is better looking than the 997 turbos i owned. I hated the bug-eyes up front and the carerra (not-S) tail pipes. I hated the squeeks and chassis flex -- only my GT3's were without it. I still miss the "busy/noisy/squirrely" steering of the 997 but I'm getting used to the 9914S I own now -- still dead-on precise, without communicating every last thing that is on the road surface.
For me this looks like the most put-together 991 to date and I cant wait for the one I just ordered.
1. "it's ugly" -- a question of whether the styling appeals, to each his own. Every generation seems to have this concern.
2. "it's not faster than every car out there, and cheaper cars go as fast or faster" -- we are talking about a car that was not designed for tracking, unlike the GT3, and even then we're talking tenths of seconds, and frankly, I want a rear engine Porsche, not a Nissan.
3. "Porsche has betrayed us" ... with too much technology, no MT, more comfortable (panamera) cabin, PDCC that can kill you, etc. The 993 devotees are still saying this stuff about the 996/7 water cooled engine. Change is not good for everyone.
4. "it's expensive" -- the 991 turbo price is approximately the same as what I paid for my 997.2 turbo s, for a car that is stiffer and approximately the same horsepower (520hp vs. 530hp). Depending on your view per the other points above, the 991 is arguably just a better 911.
5. "Porsche is just in it for the money" -- were they ever a not-for-profit?
6. All of the above comments mixed together to make the point that you don't like the car and wont ever buy one. An amazing amount of anger -- if you don't want it, it's ok not to buy one.
As for me I have made peace with the tail lights and think overall this turbo is better looking than the 997 turbos i owned. I hated the bug-eyes up front and the carerra (not-S) tail pipes. I hated the squeeks and chassis flex -- only my GT3's were without it. I still miss the "busy/noisy/squirrely" steering of the 997 but I'm getting used to the 9914S I own now -- still dead-on precise, without communicating every last thing that is on the road surface.
For me this looks like the most put-together 991 to date and I cant wait for the one I just ordered.
2. I think that many cars out there will have a hard time beating the new Turbo S from standstill. Even the "old" 997 Turbo S wasn't easy to beat and it is my understanding that the published factory claims are very conservative.
3. The 991 Turbo/Turbo S has the latest technology, 90% of this car is completely NEW (vs. the "old" 997 Turbo/Turbo S). The track time on the Nordschleife, with STREET tires (keep that in mind), is amazing. 993 Turbo? 996 Turbo? 997 Turbo? Are you kidding me? There will always be people who drive the older models and try to convince themselves that they do not need or want the newer one but in the end, they sniff the exhaust of the new Turbo/Turbo S, not you.
4. Yes, the new Turbo S is expensive but like I said before, the car is 90% NEW, so give Porsche the benefit of the doubt that they put something special on the street. Yes, i would have wished for more power and other goodies but in the end, I will be very happy with my choice (I ordered a Turbo S which will be built end of August/early September with delivery before or on Oct. 5th).
5. Exactly. Was Porsche ever a non-profit company?
6. It is nothing new that not everybody is happy with a new Porsche product. The new 991 Turbo/Turbo S is a typical 911 Turbo but it is NOT the 911 top of the line model. The 991 GT2 RS is (or will be). So if someone thinks that the Turbo/Turbo S is too soft or whatever, get the GT2 RS instead. Simple as that, just wait until 2014/2015.
I am happy with my choice and I am looking forward to get mine. I just hope the German "embargo" date, Oct. 5th, is just temporary because then, there is a good chance I'm getting mine around mid September.
07-18-2013, 07:31 PM
#85
991 still a sports car?
I swore that my old e38 750il BMW would be my first and last car without a proper manually operated handbrake. I never, ever imagined that Porsche would drop them from the 991 models in favour of a stupid button. 
Is it any better on the Turbo/GT3?
Beyond gymkhana/autocross events where they help slide the rear around, heroic parking maneuvres, J-turns etc, it is sometimes a safety feature on the street too. If someone pulls out on you as you turn into their side street, it is pretty much the only way to reliably swing the back of an all wheel drive car out of harms way (yes, done this in a previous car).
Being 2wd, at least in the 750, a stomp on the loud pedal can bring the back around a bit .
Why is Porsche going all Mercedes/BMW on us now??? Do we sports car junkies need to start lusting after McLarens instead?
Is it any better on the Turbo/GT3?
Beyond gymkhana/autocross events where they help slide the rear around, heroic parking maneuvres, J-turns etc, it is sometimes a safety feature on the street too. If someone pulls out on you as you turn into their side street, it is pretty much the only way to reliably swing the back of an all wheel drive car out of harms way (yes, done this in a previous car).
Being 2wd, at least in the 750, a stomp on the loud pedal can bring the back around a bit .
Why is Porsche going all Mercedes/BMW on us now??? Do we sports car junkies need to start lusting after McLarens instead?
07-18-2013, 08:50 PM
#86
07-21-2013, 07:02 AM
#87
I swore that my old e38 750il BMW would be my first and last car without a proper manually operated handbrake. I never, ever imagined that Porsche would drop them from the 991 models in favour of a stupid button.
Is it any better on the Turbo/GT3?
Beyond gymkhana/autocross events where they help slide the rear around, heroic parking maneuvres, J-turns etc, it is sometimes a safety feature on the street too. If someone pulls out on you as you turn into their side street, it is pretty much the only way to reliably swing the back of an all wheel drive car out of harms way (yes, done this in a previous car).
Being 2wd, at least in the 750, a stomp on the loud pedal can bring the back around a bit .
Why is Porsche going all Mercedes/BMW on us now??? Do we sports car junkies need to start lusting after McLarens instead?
Is it any better on the Turbo/GT3?
Beyond gymkhana/autocross events where they help slide the rear around, heroic parking maneuvres, J-turns etc, it is sometimes a safety feature on the street too. If someone pulls out on you as you turn into their side street, it is pretty much the only way to reliably swing the back of an all wheel drive car out of harms way (yes, done this in a previous car).
Being 2wd, at least in the 750, a stomp on the loud pedal can bring the back around a bit .
Why is Porsche going all Mercedes/BMW on us now??? Do we sports car junkies need to start lusting after McLarens instead?
Little hint: Switch to Sport Plus, turn PSM off, turn the steering wheel and gently apply the throttle to a certain point and you get your turn.
Just do some training on a parking lot and you have everything you need. Btw: Never read a more ridiculous post, sorry to say that.
07-22-2013, 09:10 PM
#88
Forget the handbrake - fiddle with the buttons! Yeah, right.
Quote:
...If someone pulls out on you as you turn into their side street, a handbrake is pretty much the only way to reliably swing the back of an all wheel drive car out of harms way (yes, done this in a previous car).
Being 2wd, at least in the 750il, a stomp on the loud pedal can bring the back around a bit ...
Rennteam: "Easy reply: Less mechanical, more electronics stuff...less fuel consumption on paper.
Little hint: Switch to Sport Plus, turn PSM off, turn the steering wheel and gently apply the throttle to a certain point and you get your turn. Just do some training on a parking lot and you have everything you need. Btw: Never read a more ridiculous post, sorry to say that."
Yep, if someone suddenly pulls out on me I'd just "Switch to Sport Plus, turn PSM off" before turning the wheel and gassing it to swing the rear out of harm's way with oversteer. Good advice for a pre-PSM car but by then that oncoming vehicle would be implanted in my driver's side already!
To be fair, the performance envelope on most P-cars is so big that a proper handbrake is not as important as it would be on, say, a Corolla - but I didn't expect Porsche to be shrinking parts of that envelope as much as they are doing now. Down our way a sports car should be able to take on a tight gymkhana course - and a handbrake matters there too. I'm hoping Porsche bring it back. Love most of what Porsche did on the 991 but with Jaguar, Aston and others invading their turf, I wish they would stick to their guns with their halo cars and keep building the world's best sports-GTs - undiluted.
The parking lot handling practice is good advice thanks
but I now mostly learn on racetracks and runways. Last time I practiced on a parking lot it was with my son's radio-controlled 959...
...If someone pulls out on you as you turn into their side street, a handbrake is pretty much the only way to reliably swing the back of an all wheel drive car out of harms way (yes, done this in a previous car).
Being 2wd, at least in the 750il, a stomp on the loud pedal can bring the back around a bit ...
Rennteam: "Easy reply: Less mechanical, more electronics stuff...less fuel consumption on paper.
Little hint: Switch to Sport Plus, turn PSM off, turn the steering wheel and gently apply the throttle to a certain point and you get your turn. Just do some training on a parking lot and you have everything you need. Btw: Never read a more ridiculous post, sorry to say that."
Yep, if someone suddenly pulls out on me I'd just "Switch to Sport Plus, turn PSM off" before turning the wheel and gassing it to swing the rear out of harm's way with oversteer. Good advice for a pre-PSM car but by then that oncoming vehicle would be implanted in my driver's side already!
To be fair, the performance envelope on most P-cars is so big that a proper handbrake is not as important as it would be on, say, a Corolla - but I didn't expect Porsche to be shrinking parts of that envelope as much as they are doing now. Down our way a sports car should be able to take on a tight gymkhana course - and a handbrake matters there too. I'm hoping Porsche bring it back. Love most of what Porsche did on the 991 but with Jaguar, Aston and others invading their turf, I wish they would stick to their guns with their halo cars and keep building the world's best sports-GTs - undiluted.
The parking lot handling practice is good advice thanks
but I now mostly learn on racetracks and runways. Last time I practiced on a parking lot it was with my son's radio-controlled 959...
09-24-2014, 03:19 PM
#90
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I agree, especially the decals on the back - Porsche 911 turbo - turbo on its own is classic!