Pb Pedis

This is the reason I will never own a GT car - I don't track enough to make the GT ownership experience really worthwhile, and I find myself enjoying the creature comforts as much as the gratifying power and confidence of turbo boost and absurd power with AWD at opportune moments on the street. Just yesterday I caught myself being annoyed that this car is the only one I have without a surround view camera for parking convenience.

Manifold

Took my TTS for a drive, immediately followed by driving my 2020 M4. The two cars are similar in weight, M4 has longer wheelbase and wider tracks, M4 has RWD, and TTS has more than 100 ft-lbs and hp more than the M4.

The TTS is of course the much more capable car. The TTS also has better ride quality and luxury features. And the TTS sounds a lot better (M4 sound is lawnmowerish, but not terrible, whereas the TTS sounds great at mid to high revs).

But I was pleased to see that the M4 is no slouch. The handling isn't as good as the TTS, especially on bumpy or wavy roads, but it's still pretty good. The car turns in well and doesn't tend to understeer. The power of the M4 feels a full notch lower than the TTS, but the car still has plenty of torque across the rev range and feels muscular and fast. The M4 also looks really good to my eye on the outside (I have a metallic gold exterior and carbon fiber roof) and inside (nice carbon fiber and overall aesthetics). The M4 doesn't put the power down to the rear wheels like a 911, and can easily spin the tires and get the back of the car moving around, so one has to be judicious in squeezing the throttle, especially at lower speeds; this isn't a car I'd really want to drive in snow, even with winter tires. The M4 also has plenty of technology. Overall, the M4 is a 'wilder' ride than the TTS, and also offers the practicality of a roomy rear seat and trunk.

Considering cost (used prices of $65k for the M4 and $166k for the TTS, both with low miles and almost new condition), I think the M4 is actually the better value for the dollar. But as the saying goes, if you appreciate what Porsches have to offer, 'there is no substitute', the 911 is the apex Porsche, and IMO the TTS is the apex 911.

gbakerge

I like your comparison posts. First the GT3, now the M4. What can we expect next? The 458 or 488?

Manifold

I wish! All of our cars are German. Maybe one day I'll get a Ferrari or McLaren (the want is not small), but I do like the stealth aspect of the Porsches (admittedly, gold M4 isn't very stealth).

Manifold

Anyone know why there's so much tire roar in these 991 TTS cars? It doesn't really bother me, but I can't figure out the reason for the amount of tire roar.

worf928

Well, they basically don’t have wheel well liners in the rear(*). The rear wells are therefore echo chambers and resonators. Add in the ducting for the air intake for more echo/resonator effect.

(*) The little ‘demi’ liner for the intercooler doesn’t count.

Is the tire roar that much more than your GT3?

Last thought: check tread depth. Tires get louder as the tread goes away. And a harder compound is generally going to be louder than a soft compound.

Manifold

Yes, louder than GT3. Tires could be factor, and I think mine on the TTS are about 4 years old, so probably harder and louder than new tires. The other part of your explanation also makes sense.

worf928

Not so much the age of the tire as a difference in the tire compound. For an extreme example: With the same tire size, a warm Cup tire is going to be quieter than an eco-tire because the eco compound is as hard as glass. So, if you've got stickies on your GT3 and Pirelli street tires on the TT then I'd expect the former to be quieter because they're a softer compound.

But, it think the big noise difference is in the rear wheel wells. Now, if your GT3 is a 991.2 RS with the same a$$-construction architecture as the TT then I'm wrong.

Manifold

GT3 is 991.1. Used to have Cup 2, now has Goodyear Supercar 3. Supercar 3 is louder than Cup 2.

TTS has Michelin 4S and is louder than the GT3 with the Supercar 3.

worf928

non-RS is narrow body and no air induction at hips. I would expect it to be quieter. My wife’s 991S has noticeably less (but just barely) tire roar when not running (hard compound) winter tires than my TT. Put winter tires on it and it is louder at speed.

GY Sc3 is a much softer compound than PS4S.

Manifold

Took the TTS for a drive today. Some observations:

- This thing really gulps gas. Combined with the small fuel tank, visits to the gas station are frequent.

- I think the firmness of the suspension is about right. On rough roads in the softer PDCC setting, the ride can be a bit harsh - this is not an S-class Mercedes. But on decent roads, the ride is supple while the handling is sufficiently planted in either PDCC mode. Feel on the track is TBD.

- Really love the precise adjustability of the 18-way seats.

- I think it's appropriate for Porsche to offer a road-focused 911 this powerful only in AWD form. RWD version of this car would be too hairy for the road.

- Unless I missed it, looks the Individual setting can't control the splitter/spoiler.

So far, I'm liking the car more each time I drive it.

gbakerge

Individual setting can control the rear spoiler, not sure about the front.

gyh

This is interesting and I totally agree about the F8X platform being an incredible value. I just turned in my F80 Competition for a 991.2 Turbo and my initial impressions are that there was more "racecar theater" involved in driving the F80 than in driving the turbo. Mine was also a 6 speed so it was very involving to drive at any speed and the car as a whole was geared toward reminding the driver that they are behind the wheel of an "M" car. The exhaust sounded better and is tuned to generate lots of pops and burbles and overall noise, the car would come onto power more abruptly and the weight distribution made it easy to get the rear wheels loose whenever you want, which overall made the car fun to drive. The S54 engine is also very well cooled for a stock motor and I always ran cool temps even on 100 degree days at the track. The versatility was unmatched with four doors and a sizeable trunk.

That said, the Turbo's seriousness is part of its charm. It is more able to completely pretend like it's a normal car and then change character entirely with a push of a button (or in my case, the twist of a dial). The raw power of the turbo and overall looks make it more of an event. When it does make noise, it seems more earnest and more genuine as if those noises are evidence of the car's actual potential, whereas the M3 felt a bit shouty regardless of the speed or use.

In prepping my F80 for the track I felt that I could readily identify the areas where BMW made a decision to use a less stout component to keep it at a lower price point with the understanding that those who needed more would be willing to spend to upgrade the component. For example, the use of 4 and 2 piston brembo calipers when the Turbo uses 6 and 4 for more or less the same curb weight so brake cooling was an area that needed to be addressed. The stock pads are also wholly inadequate at high temps and must be switched out and camber plates must be added to adjust the camber to a place where you can take advantage of the suspension. Chassis is noticeably softer. There's the crank hub issue (basically the two-piece crank hub is held together by a friction washer that can slip in high power applications and completely destroy the engine) that discourages tuning beyond stock HP. (I also had a local BMW dealer terrifyingly fill me up with fuel efficiency spec oil which would have been useless under high loads and thus learned to change my own oil). All of these issues are marginal and don't apply to most owners but would become costly if one's goal was to try and level up the platform to chase 991s . From what I understand the 991 platform as a whole is more ready out of the box. Love both cars but I certainly appreciate the "total package" that you get up and down the 991 range, particularly at the Turbo/S level.

Manifold

Took the 991.2 C4S cab for a long drive today, immediately followed by driving the 991.2 TTS.

Honestly, I was shocked. They feel almost like totally different cars, to the extent that comparison seems almost pointless. But I'll do it anyway.

The C4S is plenty fast if you push it, and inspires confidence, and is fun and playful and relaxed. It does everything really well. It's a car I can see keeping forever.

The TTS is a quantum leap higher in performance: the C4S feels like a great sports car, the TTS feels like a proper supercar, a serious car. While the C4S has good power if you wring it out, the TTS has an abundance of 'easy power', starting at relatively low revs - I almost never think 'I wish I had more power'. The TTS feels bigger and heavier (it is), but it also feels more solid (of course, partly due to coupe vs cab). The ride quality of the TTS is better on both smooth and rough roads, which I think is largely due to the PDCC. The way the TTS turns in is also better, which, again, I think is partly due to the PDCC. While the C4S sounds pretty good at higher revs, the TTS sounds much more aggressive at higher revs - I love the sound of the TTS. Overall, the TTS feels like it can just pulverize roads, and you have fun and feel in full control when doing it. I'm kind of surprised that Porsche had the ***** to make a car like the TTS.

The saying is that 'there is no substitute' for a Porsche, but I think there's also no substitute for the TTS. A truly amazing car.

Before comparing these cars back to back, I thought that maybe a TTS cab would be a perfect road 911. But now I think that I’d rather keep them separate: more relaxed C4S seems the best fit for top-down cruising, whereas the TTS beckons me to drive in a way that doesn’t really fit the spirit of a cab.

Manifold

Friend and I went for a drive in my TTS today. While he was driving, we encountered someone in a black 992 TTS cab who followed us for a while. Pretty cool to see two turbos running together.

My friend liked the TTS, but still likes my 997.1 C2S manual more. Seems that he felt the TTS was just too much car.