If you upgrade turbos on 991.1 is it comparable or are there other engine differences? Also, are the 999.2 non-S turbos any larger than 991.1 or the same size?

Thanks.

 

Upgrade how? You can swap bigger turbos on, but then you hit the fuel system limit of the 991.1 quicker. The .2 has far more fuel capacity. Only the 991.2 S has the larger turbos, no idea on the fuel system part, as I only looked at the S because I knew I would be modding it and wanted the larger turbos out of the box.

If all you ever want is ~600hp, then it won't matter, but if you want to push it more later, then the extra cost will be well worth it.

 

Anyone know how fuel system on 991.1 vs 991.2 differs? Injectors? Fuel pumps? I upgraded both on my GT-R. There is about a ~$50k difference to go up to 991.2 TTS so just trying to understand if any of the differences are that insurmountable.

 

The price difference is $50k because you're not only looking at a revised generation but stepping up to the turbo S at the same time. 991.1 TTS vs 991.2 TTS is more like $15k difference. If you plan to mod the car I wouldn't pay for an extended warranty. If it's already CPO'd that's fine but I wouldn't pay more for that unless it makes you sleep better at night. 50k miles on these cars is nothing and I don't think you'll see any real difference in price between a car with 50k miles and one with 65k miles so don't worry about driving it while you have it. No reason to save it for the next guy...

I drove the 991.1 TTS and 991.2 TTS back to back and it's more than just turbos and fuel system that separates those two. The chassis tuning is also different, the 991.2 just handled better for how I like to drive the car. The price difference b/w the two was $12k that day so I picked up the .2 TTS w/30k miles and now have almost 34k on her and I have loved every mile. The 991.2 also has CarPlay which I use all the time so that also pushed me in that direction.

Another option in that price range could be the 997.2 TTS which used larger turbos than the 991.1 has, they are similar to the 991.2 TTS actually. If you plan to mod the car that is also a great platform to start from and it's closer to the $100-110k range so you may be able to get all of what you want at a price you are comfortable with. If you just want a really fast, fun car to drive there is nothing wrong with the 991.1 turbo and there is always a faster car on the road (you are driving one currently ;-) ).

The answer to your question all relates to how you plan to use the car and how much you are comfortable spending.

 

All of it I believe. And unlike a GTR or car with port injection, it is solely direct injection, so upgrades are not cheap or easy. Adding a port setup can easily be $30-40k (fuel tank, pump, intake manifold, stand alone controller, lines, regulators, etc). 991.1 runs 140bar vs 200bar and looks like smaller injectors as well. Based off past post, 991.1 caps out ~700-725hp while .2 can make upwards of 900 without issues.

Where are you finding 991.1 Turbos for $100k? Considering you can get a nice 991.2 for $150k saying there is 50k difference implies 991.1 is at 100 or less. It is about a 20k difference when I was shopping 6 months ago.

 

This is a little misleading. I have 750HP (that's at the crank) on my 991.1 TT with no modifications to the fuelling system - on crappy 91 gas in So Cal, with no meth either. So there's more HP to be had before the fueling system is a limitation.

Having said that - I think if it were me and the difference is $10-15K between a 991.1 TTS and a similarly equipped 991.2 TT - I would take the latter.

 

Just going off a previous post on here, stating the limit was around there. Either way the 991.2 has a lot more headroom before fuel system upgrades than the .1

 

I agree with the strategy of getting better OEM fueling capacity with the 991.2 but saving some money by getting a TT instead of the TTS if the plan is to upgrade turbos anyway. If the Turbo S model and related options are not particularly important to the buyer, the savings on the TT model should pay for the upgrade to Tial 68mm turbos, which are a little bigger than the OEM 991.2 TTS units anyway.

 

Interesting. I had read that intake plenum and intake runners were smaller on 991 than 997 for fuel economy but didn’t realize turbos were smaller as well.

How does fuel system on 997.2 tts compare?

Also I read on shark werks 997.2 tuning guide they recommend to keep power below 600 HP to avoid problems with PDK. Does 991 PDK hold more power reliably?

I’m open to anything 997.2 to 991.2. Just trying to understand the differences and what you get for the money.

 

For what you're looking for there's one answer: 991.2 Turbo S.

I get where you come from fully being involved with the tuner lifestyle and being involved with GTR's. If you settle for anything less you're going to regret it or spending a lot more money playing catch up.

Not only that, the PCM in the 991.2 is actually usuable for today's standards. Steering wheel is nicer too.

Also, I read that the turbos in the 991.2 TTS came off the turbos from the 997.2 GT2 RS.

 

Feel free to reach out if I can help you sift through all the info. The intakes are 95% the same on all from 997.2 through 991.2. On the 991.1 Porsche put little ramps right where the manifold meets the head to increase velocity for low speed efficiency and like usual likely to tune out an issue. Which we could verify although ever so slight when bolting 991.2 manifolds (where they removed this again) to a 991.1. The heads on teh 991.2 are different in many interesting ways and it runs great without the ramp. The fueling is different form low pressure pump all the way to the injectors and their placement in the head. This equates to about 100wheel hp worth of added fueling capacity. Pretty significant. There were also some upgrades to the PDK like teh valve-body and management. Some aero upgraded and suspension advancements as well. Porsche usually ups the game on all the main parts of tech and performance on a facelift model.

The 997.2 was a test bed and pretty much a 991 underneath with teh 1st gen PDK. In regards to the turbochargers...They have been based on the BW BV-50 since the 997 with small changes in comp wheel here and there. The GT2 cars got a slightly larger comp wheel and turbine housing A/R. The the RS an even slightly larger comp wheel. The GT set up went into the 997.2. Then on the 991.1 (all models) and the 991.2tt non S it stayed the same with the exception on a different metal composite on the .2. Porsche really started to look at heat including installing inconel exhaust valves on the .2 cars. Finally on the 991.2TTS we got an all new turbo and CHRA. Larger billet comp wheel but still the same turbine although revised in it's clip and metallurgy and the same turbine housing that was smaller than the 997.2/GT2 cars. Then the 991.2 GT2RS got an all new turbos again with totally different fitment and exhaust/headers as did the 992 cars with wategates and VTG.

Hope this helps guys

 

Yes! This is a wealth of great information thank you and everyone else for the education. Sounds like a lot of improvements rolled in to the 991.2 and especially 991.2 TTS.

On GTRs there are lots of subtle improvements to suspension NVH and infotainment over the years but the 09s can still be made just as fast as 2023s in spite of multiple face lifts. Performance improvements from Nissan came mostly in way of software updates. It sounds like with Porsche, changes are more substantial and earlier model years are limiting of potential.

The 991.1 TT local to me is $114k. It sounds like I can make it FBO GTR fast without too much trouble but it will have capped potential should I wish to go further. The 991.2 TTS in a 200 mile radius of me range all from $165k-$199k If I expand to 500 mile radius I start to see some in the 150s, but I prefer to buy a car I can inspect in person. I may just have to be patient for the right car to come along.

 

If you are going to do more extensive mods on the car then I don't think you need to worry about it not being a 991.2 TTS. I believe @bigrpowr started with a 991.1 TT and got into the 8's in the 1/4 with street tires and a quiet exhaust with @SamboTT@ByDesign . So the money you save can be put towards the mods.

 

Yeah, the TTS has its benefits, of course, including options, but we can do very well with a standard TT if modifications are part of your journey

 

Just for comparison sake, my buddy had a 2017 FBO GTR on E85 and my 991.2 TTS at the time was FBO on 93. Both cars stock turbochargers. My TTS was a little bit faster than his GTR but if we ran it repeatedly he would end up pulling on my TTS on the top end due to heat soaking ( my car has upgraded intercoolers)... Granted E85 was helping his car tremendously compared to 93 octane for me, his motor was staying cooler. I don't know a lot about the R35's but he told me his FBO was on a very strong "kill map" that ran far and away stronger than other similarly modded GTR's.

My car always outlaunched his and he was on drag radials while I was on high performance street tires. Half mile his GTR was doing 165-168 while mine was doing 170-172. Even the 991.2's can't extract full potential on E85 and you'll have to keep it around E30-E35 which does better than 93.

We're in a buyers market and dealerships are getting desperate. Make some offers and shoot your shot. Go ahead and even low ball too.