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Water Pump Failure at 50,000 miles

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Old 02-07-2022, 07:35 PM
  #16  
CodyzWorld
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Happy Advanced Birthday!
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tinkll1 (02-07-2022)
Old 02-07-2022, 08:07 PM
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Default A Very Tardy Thank You for Your Words of Wisdom

Originally Posted by abiazis
Nice write-up. My insights on my Porsche experience........

My customer service experience since 1999 has yielded both good and just terrible customer service from Porsche dealers in various states and from Porsche North America, when issues were taken to a higher level for discussion and resolution.

The "fine print" on their various warranties programs is an essential read before purchase, but I find there are always addendums that magically appear or surface that were never presented in the documentation, that the dealer communicates to you, i.e. like "adjustments" costs not being covered under warranty.

I have dealt with dealers in New Jersey, Maryland, North Carolina, Georgia, Minnesota, New York, California and New York. There is no perfect dealer and collectively they rate a 7 out of 10.

PCNA is basically "tone deaf" when contacted and refers everything back to its dealers on warranty (which is understandable per their contracts with dealers). However there could be a better system of support from PCNA to assist when a dealer "stonewalls" an issue.

When resistance is met at dealer level, you then must press what you believe to be a warranty item, with time consuming extensive follow-up, hoping that a Regional rep investigates. It then becomes a hit or miss as far as securing 100% coverage on a, i.e. part failure, labor cost, that a KIA or Toyota dealer would cover 100% without hesitation.

Overall, it is an estimated 50/50 outcome, whether the warranty is honored and goes as advertised, as there always seems to be a new caveat preventing total coverage under the original or CPO warranty. It always is a battle of wills, even in these days where Porsches are amongst the most expensive production cars on the market, where you would think they would stand behind more ardently. Relatively speaking, one would expect more supportive service, when a part or system fails within the warranty period or slightly beyond, say 6 months, without haggling.

The "IMS failure fiasco" with the 996 did much to erode my confidence in Porsche standing behind their product that I purchased and it took a class action suit to bring any justice to the situation albeit a decade later after ownership.

Additionally, another example of the recent 10 year engine warranty instituted on the 991.1 GT3s in the US, also took quite a follow-up effort from Rennlist members to become the "safety blanket" for many owners, going forward.

My actual experience, for example, with Toyota or Lexus products has been much better relative to customer service and warranty coverage when something breaks or doesn't function as designed, both in and out of warranty.

As the OP states, these annoyances occur, thankfully not too often, and we do seem to put up with them because we like the way these cars perform.

As the prices continue to escalate on Porsches and become more commonplace at over $150K, it will be interesting to see how loyalty is effected when warranty work is a constant negotiation.

It does appear though it will not be greatly effected in a negative way, because the competition from other high performance brands is just as lacking in customer service, if not worse in my experience, i.e. Mercedes, BMW, Audi.

We all know it is not a perfect world and just the way things are in the automotive world of customer service......Mediocrity in customer service after the sale is where the bar is set for immediate profitability purposes. When we experience excellent customer service, it is a huge and pleasant surprise.
First, my apology for not getting back to Rennlist for way too long.

Many excellent points, and, yes, it is a very imperfect world. We, Porsche enthusiasts, share an appreciation for the core values that characterized a tiny German (Austrian) company in the 1940's when no one could foresee what success lay ahead, but the engineering and attention to detail, the styling, the underdog role, all created sympathetic vibrations in a community of enthusiasts that grew over the years and was rewarded by an involving product line clothed in competitive success. It appealed to aesthetics and to engineering creativity, and the facts and the aspirations and fantasies grew into myth and, almost, folklore. Yet, it had to be a business, and a very complex one, at that. I agree with you that Lexus, for example, would handle a failure of their product in a very different, and a more empathetic way. They roll out the red carpet that absolutely seduces my wife when she has her car serviced and she is totally unaware of the margin built into the pricing that allows Toyota to do this. Also, this kind of a problem doesn't happen in a Toyota because they are built to last.... perhaps, overbuilt to last! Reliability surveys generally attest to this, though Porsche seems to score higher than many of its customers would imagine.

As I am in a service field that describes itself as a "profession" I make the mistake of projecting professional values on to a market interaction. The automobile business from design to manufacture to sales to service is a profit-driven capitalistic enterprise, and Porsche has been extremely successful, building on a reputation that was honestly acquired, and a willing audience that adds far more than vehicular utility to its purchase. We, Porsche addicts, expect more, and we shouldn't. The answer, of course, is competition. One must keep in mind that our expectations, fanned as they are by folklore and advertising, are for qualities that are far more difficult to measure than how long a part lasts in use. We are paying for a cache, in part, and the arrogance that I note within the corporation (Porsche GMBH) in the attitude of "We build the cars with our expertise, and your job is to get in line to buy them," is a consequence of supply and demand, of yielding to the conclusion that this is the best we can expect in the real world.

Thank you again.
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the_buch (02-08-2022)
Old 02-07-2022, 11:34 PM
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Happy 86th birthday Tinkll1. Per your posts, I should not be surprised, but I can’t help but be disappointed that Porsche would not bend over backwards for a loyal customer like you. It is a shame being an owner since 1966 doesn’t account for more…
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tinkll1 (02-08-2022)
Old 02-08-2022, 11:44 AM
  #19  
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I know its a few days early but happy birthday to you. And enjoy your cars!
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tinkll1 (02-08-2022)
Old 02-08-2022, 12:18 PM
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I appreciate this thread as I'm 70 this year and now believing I'll still be driving a Porsche for a couple of decades yet. In fact, in your honour, I'm going to take it for a spin right now. Thanks, Doug
Old 02-08-2022, 01:00 PM
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I love this (not the bad part). My father is 85 and in many ways he outpaces us so God bless you too! As for the deal with Porsche, that's too bad. I hear many mixed stories of how they handle things from amazing to horrible. Hopefully the 992 experience will be better and I would be happy to help with anything I can either with a local dealer or otherwise. Will be here on your birthday to to say hello
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tinkll1 (02-08-2022)
Old 02-08-2022, 05:56 PM
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Quote: "I should not be surprised, but I can’t help but be disappointed that Porsche would not bend over backwards for a loyal customer like you. It is a shame being an owner since 1966 doesn’t account for more…"

Thanks for your empathy. I'm afraid that the personal nature of an interaction suffers as the size of the provider grows, with increasing layers of bureaucracy, necessarily at a greater distance from any actual transaction. I see this in my profession, medicine, where the geometric growth of technology necessitates distancing between patient and sub specialist, as well as the need to justify action and costs to bureaucrats at a greater distance from the transaction taking place. That old world craftsman who put his name on the violin is gone forever. And the empathy that we find in social media amongst those with similar interests, and often sensitivities, is not readily incorporated into the modern corporation. We do run into the occasional service manager, or salesman, who says, "This is wrong. Let me see what I can do about it." It would be too much to expect in a capitalist economy, someone designated by the corporation to represent the customer's viewpoint, but sometimes an act of kindness and empathy creates a life-long positive impression. I've found this to be the character of the individual, or a policy that was started by a founder and relentlessly implemented, despite growth and dilution. Rare, indeed.
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Old 02-08-2022, 05:58 PM
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Thank you. I hope to, for some time to come.
Old 02-08-2022, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by the_buch
I appreciate this thread as I'm 70 this year and now believing I'll still be driving a Porsche for a couple of decades yet. In fact, in your honour, I'm going to take it for a spin right now. Thanks, Doug
Safe driving, ahead.
Old 02-10-2022, 08:22 PM
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I'm 76 and don't plan to get rid of my Turbo S for a looong time. Drives over 4 hours don't help my back, but it's nothing worth getting rid of this amazing car.
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Old 02-10-2022, 08:53 PM
  #26  
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Default Longevity and Car Endurance

Originally Posted by Jim M.
I'm 76 and don't plan to get rid of my Turbo S for a looong time. Drives over 4 hours don't help my back, but it's nothing worth getting rid of this amazing car.
I think that driving enjoyment doesn't diminish with age unless loss of health and mental acuity progress rapidly. I'm reminded of correspondence with Porsche GMBH in 2010 over my request to see the "marriage" of body and powertrain, on the assembly line, for my 997 Turbo S (new Porsche #8) which I described as "my last Porsche," in a vain attempt to draw sympathy from management. I went so far as to direct my comments via letter to 2 Porsche board members with the famous last name, and a Piech, but was redirected to a long chain of buffers who declared that photos on the production line, or visits were impossible and would never happen, citing the privacy of workers. I note that, consistent with this declaration, the photos that are made available, on the production line, do not show workers. So, it would seem, that pounding on the doors by enough people eventually resulted into "Track My Dream." When I set my retirement date for 2016, I assured my Porsche saleswoman, who had sold me #8, that #9, a 991.1 Turbo S would be my last Porsche, as I could have no business car without a business. #6, a 1996 993 Turbo was driven for 195,000 miles before getting a second chance with a neurosurgeon in Seattle. I was driving to as many as 7 hemodialysis clinics and 5 hospitals, working 7 days/week much of the time. Pat-time employment, as an employee, doesn't qualify me for a business car.

An interest in cars, and Porsche and its racing, is helping to keep me fully engaged in life.
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Old 02-10-2022, 10:12 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by tinkll1
I think that driving enjoyment doesn't diminish with age unless loss of health and mental acuity progress rapidly. I'm reminded of correspondence with Porsche GMBH in 2010 over my request to see the "marriage" of body and powertrain, on the assembly line, for my 997 Turbo S (new Porsche #8) which I described as "my last Porsche," in a vain attempt to draw sympathy from management. I went so far as to direct my comments via letter to 2 Porsche board members with the famous last name, and a Piech, but was redirected to a long chain of buffers who declared that photos on the production line, or visits were impossible and would never happen, citing the privacy of workers. I note that, consistent with this declaration, the photos that are made available, on the production line, do not show workers. So, it would seem, that pounding on the doors by enough people eventually resulted into "Track My Dream." When I set my retirement date for 2016, I assured my Porsche saleswoman, who had sold me #8, that #9, a 991.1 Turbo S would be my last Porsche, as I could have no business car without a business. #6, a 1996 993 Turbo was driven for 195,000 miles before getting a second chance with a neurosurgeon in Seattle. I was driving to as many as 7 hemodialysis clinics and 5 hospitals, working 7 days/week much of the time. Pat-time employment, as an employee, doesn't qualify me for a business car.

An interest in cars, and Porsche and its racing, is helping to keep me fully engaged in life.


195,000 miles. YOU ARE DA MAN !

Cheers.
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tinkll1 (04-06-2022)
Old 02-11-2022, 07:36 PM
  #28  
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Interesting about the water pump failure. It's a very common failure on the 2017 3.0 tt Carreras.
Maybe the bolt coming loose on the idler pulley tensioner caused shaking that failed the water pump. I'd pursue that, because it's a factory tensioner assy problem. Unless a dealer service shop was in there in the past and doing something with that belt tensioner. Then it's their fault.

Last edited by PCA1983; 02-11-2022 at 07:39 PM.
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tinkll1 (04-06-2022)
Old 04-06-2022, 03:46 PM
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Thank you, abiazis, for your thoughtful and comprehensive answer. It is amazing how Toyota, particularly its Lexus division, has focused so successfully on customer satisfaction as the road to success, while Porsche, and most higher priced European manufacturers have relied on a degree of arrogance to convey just how lucky we, consumers, are to be allowed to purchase their creations.
Old 04-06-2022, 03:54 PM
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In my enthusiasm to sell the 991 TTS, and configure the new 992 TTS, and follow it obsessively via TYD and internet vessel tracking, I did not pursue the dealership or PCNA. I sold the 991, took delivery of the 992 and I'm now documenting everything, including the week it took to get PorscheConnect to respond the way it is supposed to. The strive for perfection is a frustrating process, and the advice of fellow strivers and sufferers is comforting. Thanks to this community.


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