T10Chris

It's a nice car, still under warranty, don't understand the big deal... If anything I'd prefer a car that has been tracked over a garage queen- you can pretty much guarantee any issues a car may or may not have will have shown themselves on track and already been taken care of by warranty so the car would be even less to worry about whether it would continue playing on track, going to daily driver duties, or retiring to cars and coffee trips. Good luck with the sale, wish I could pick it up

guab

I don't see the issue with track days as long as the service history shows it was taken care of and the track usage was explained up front (since track usage does add extra wear and tear). Seems to be the case where it was explained in the ad from what I am looking at, and service records seem immaculate. Car looks great.

Penn4S

I don't believe I saw the "cry baby" posts Randy. Were you flamed for posting your car? Is this getting to be a sewing circle sight loaded with biddies that complain about everything.
Sorry to hear that Randy, you are a great contributor to this forum. Pay it no mind.

neil.schneider

Agreed, Randy is a great and knowledgeable contributor to this site. Not to mention he has great taste in cars.

vman932

I have been casually shopping/considering a 991 turbo and have followed multiple 991 turbo auctions on BAT including the car in this thread. I am offering what I feel to be an objective opinion on this situation. For those that feel the comments on the BAT auction are unfair or attacking, have you actually read the comments in the BAT auction and the description? If not, I strongly suggest you do. The complaints are not that the car has been tracked, but rather that the extent to which it had been tracked and track prepped were not disclosed and then history of car's number of track days was deleted here on Rennlist.

The vehicle description highlighted the reversal of typical mods one might expect from an enthusiast (wheels, exhaust, and springs), however neglected to mention the reversal of the more track focused mods (racing seats, 6 point harnesses, half cage, steel rotors, track pads and fluid). Per the auction description:
Reading that, I'm sure most would assume those were the only mods. Later the description states:


This doesn't seem out of the ordinary. A lot of people track their cars. However, when the question about the number of track days was posed, and the user noted he suspected the car had done 30+ track days (per a post by the owner Rennlist), the selling dealer stated:



The selling dealer claims to have no way of knowing the number track days, but is somehow sure that 30+ is incorrect. I find it interesting that the selling dealer can claim to not have any way of knowing the number of days, but in the same breath make an assurance regarding the upper bound.... Regardless, the selling dealer takes this opportunity to highlight the fact that car never had any engine, transmission or drivetrain mods. I can only assume this is to insinuate that those types of mods would be detrimental to the car whereas the bolt-ons modifications the car did have were of little consequence. Again the dealer mentioned the mods, but did not mention the mods that were track focused.

The BAT user then mentioned the car had 40+ track days. The selling dealer doubled down and again insisted it had not done that many track days. The BAT user then posted a screenshot of a Rennlist post made by the owner on 2-2-18 stating the he had already done 40+ track days with the car. The build date for the car was June of 2016. In the first 18~20 months of ownership, the car did 40+ track days. There is no way to know how many track days there were in the following year before converting back to stock, but by the owner's own account, there were 40+ in the first 20 months. The BAT user then posted another screenshot of the same post with the mention of 40+ track days edited/deleted from the post. This edit/deletion was made only a few minutes after the question about the number of track days was posed on BAT. The OP states he was flamed for deleting the post at the start of this thread. I don't think there was any criticism regarding this thread, but rather for deleting his own account the car's track history in a post that was 1.5 years old.

I know several have stated that Porsches are built for the track and there is no issue with tracking them and I agree. I have tracked several of my cars. However, to claim that track miles are not harder on a car than street miles is disingenuous. There is also a big difference between the wear and tear caused by a novice that buys a helmet and does a couple track days versus an advanced driver who tracks the car every other weekend on r-compounds with racing seats, harnesses and a 1/2 cage running in the advanced group. And if you truly feel that a heavily tracked car with lots of maintenance is better than a garage queen, why would there be any reason to not be forthcoming with the mod history or go so far as edit posts to remove references to the amount of track time the car has seen?

Given the way selling dealer has been less than forthcoming, and the owner has edited post(s) about the car, I can see how it would give potential buyers pause. Skeptical buyers might also suspect that the car on is consignment so the selling dealer can field the questions, but claim plausible deniability on pointed ones like the number of track days and give vague answers like this:
I'm sure the OP/seller is a great guy and an asset to Rennlist, but the way the car has been presented by the dealer on BAT and the editing of post(s) here on rennlist just doesn't look good.

Randyc151

I'm just hesitant to respond to any of this until after the auction because of the unproductive cross-talking, but the answers are pretty clear and simple if you look harder into the back and forth.

DansDrives

This.

ArtF10

I have been following this car for a long time on other threads and paid attention to the for sale activity just for curiosity of what my car will be worth. The seller has been pretty diligent about adding good content to the forum and as I read the original for sale ad and the BAT profile it seems rather accurately and honestly portrayed. So what if it was tracked and so what if he's an advanced driver. He owned a car that was meant to be enjoyed and he enjoyed it to the fullest but also in addition took very good care of it. Too many complainers that jump to judgement too easily. Crazy world.

Penn4S

This

Dr Chill

Saying these cars are great and meant to be enjoyed to their potential, and that Randy is an asset to this forum is very true. To say the description and replies to questions in the auction regarding the degree of track use this vehicle has seen have been honestly portrayed is inaccurate. There should have been full disclosure of all info including links to the "991 Turbo Track car" thread in the original auction. Any potential buyer would want to know this info so they can bid appropriately on the vehicle.

Alan A

Right. Agree 100%.

But if it doesn’t matter then why hide that fact by deleting posts asserting same.

If he’d said “yup I tracked it” this would never have happened.

Its the internet in 2019.
Everything you ever posted can be found somewhere.
Trying to hide stuff looks bad.

GLWS.
Lesson there for everyone...

Bruce H.

It's the buyer's job to do their due diligence when buying a used car (or anything else), including verifying any information they see fit to. I don't see that it's the job of a forum member here to take it upon himself to warn others about the car's history, and perhaps that's the reason he deleted his inappropriate post where he did exactly that. I also don't think it's the current owner's responsibility to provide any information about the car other than what a buyer requests. If a buyer wants to comb through forum posts as part of their due diligence that's fine, but it's offensive for forum members to cast unsolicited aspersions about someone else's car. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if this car's buyer tracks it as well. It's legal, Porsche builds, promotes and even warrants it under that use, and it's common knowledge to anyone who researches that many owners use theirs on track.

This thread should be deleted.

Jim991

$130k. Seems fair. Nice car, not my favorite color but to each his own.

Randyc151

No, not even close. I've got other real offers considerably higher that I'm working through at the moment. At $130k, I'd just hang on to it.

flsupraguy

There was no reserve so that means it is sold?