What is the best lithium battery to get for a GT3/GT2 RS?
 

2018/2019 GT3/GT2 RS light weight battery. Which is best? Surprised the car doesn't come with a lithium battery or have option for one. Wonder why?

I did Liteblox, great battery, but pricey... you can buy also their custom battery plate for 991s..
Nice thing it comes with iphone app and can be turned off over winter, real time health status monitoring, etc
Total weight loss is 20,2KG (19,1kg the battery and 1,1kg the plate) this is the bigger size battery for DD, not the race version (even lighter, and also cheaper)
https://en.liteblox.de/lightweight-b...-2-gt3-gt2-rs/

I know Porsche oem option for lithium battery is 3000euros, at least for EU should be available as option

Thanks. That is a super light weight battery. Was looking at Antigravity at SEMA show and they are almost twice the weight. https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...omotive/rs-30/

That looks like a great product! Thank you

Liteblox :thumbup:

Did your car need programming when you installed the Liteblox battery? Their website seems to indicate that a visit to the dealer is necessary to initialise it etc.

This is standard Porsche procedure that you don't need in most overwhelming number of cases.

Looks great but yes, very pricey. How about an Antigravity battery? Currently sold out, but that's the one I'd get if I were to go that route. You'll probably want their custom mount, too.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...omotive/rs-30/

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...rs30-tray-kit/

But it's also almost twice the capacity (30Ah vs. 17.5Ah in lightblox). Antigravity of the same capacity is comparable.

Scott from Antigravity here. I'll answer some questions below. But first I wanted to say we have a new Battery line coming. I didn't want to put it out there this early as we are trying to finish our production and get marketing Materials ready, but it is assumed that some should arrive by the end of January. We are coming out with OEM sized Lithium Batteries. Meaning the exact sizes that fit in your Cars.... No need for a Tray, or special installation. We will start with the H5/Group 47, H6/Group48, H7/Group49, which covers most all European Performance Cars (Porsche, BMW, Lambo, Ferrari, Aston Martin etc), and quite a few American Cars also. We will also offer them in different Amp Hour Capacities to allow for lighter weights or more capacity depending on the application of the user. For example we will have the H6 in 25Ah, 30Ah and 40Ah models. But the ULTRA-COOL thing is these batteries will also have a WIRELESS KEY FOB REMOTE to access the built-in Jump-Starting feature which we call the RE-START feature. This means not only will you never be stranded by the battery going dead, but you won't even have to open the hood to access the battery to engage the RE-START feature. Just press the button on the Keyfob... start the car and drive away. It will also eliminate having to go to the fuse panel if your battery over-discharges and you can't open the Frunk. Just press the RE-START Keyfob and energize your system and you can open the frunk. Anyway as this progresses I'll lbe posting in some of the forums.


To answer Karl's Questions,

I think the Liteblox battery is a pretty cool battery, and I'm not here to bash them at all. But I'll point out some facts.

The weight differences between a Liteblox and Antigravity Battery aren't because Liteblox makes a "lighter battery". The weight difference is due to how much Lithium Battery you actually get inside the battery itself. As Max LTV mentioned our RS-30 has about twice the actual Amp Hour Capacity. Which also means twice the Power of the Liteblox Battery you mention. We put a bigger battery in the RS-30 therefore it weighs more.. but still only 11.5 lbs . We have other models that are in the same Amp Hour configuration as the Liteblox and they weigh roughly the same as the Liteblox (our ATX-30), But keep in mind, with 2x the Amp Hours and Power means in very cold weather the RS-30 would also outperform the Liteblox dramatically due to having almost twice the overhead in power. Also note that having two times the Amp Hours would mean that you could store your car for TWICE as long before the battery is drained. So these are massive differences between the two models we are talking about. And while the Liteblox is Carbon Fiber which looks cool, and has the Bluetooth set-up. it is also roughly $1950 dollars compared to the RS-30 which is $700 dollars. So the Liteblox is $1100.00 dollars MORE than the Antigravity RS-30, yet the RS-30 gives you double the performance. So those are some of the key comparison factors, I wanted to make sure that was clarified because it is a massive difference.

If anyone is looking for the best Lithium Battery for their car... it is NOT about weight only. You want to consider your USE. Are you Street only, are you Street and Track/Performance, or are you full Race? Do you drive the Car often or does it sit for a while ( 1 month and more) between driving? These questions are what will ultimately determine what you want from your lithium battery. For example if it's a daily driver and you just want to lose a lot of weight but still have the ability to not put the car on a charger for a month or two then you can want to go with about 30 amp hours minimum. If you're more of a street performance guy and who does some track days and you want to drop even a bit more weight then you can go into the 20 to 25 amp hour range and get a bit more weight savings, but then you may need to put the battery on a maintainer if you're not driving within two weeks or so. But if you're one of those people who doesn't mind putting the battery on the maintainer and monitoring your vehicle more often then you can get away with these smaller 15 to 20 amp hour batteries. And if your a full race person a 7 to 10 amp hour Lithium may also work fine , but you would want to watch for over-discharge on these really small batteries. While they will easily start the Cars, they can be damaged easily by over-discharge. You would also want to make sure your Battery has a full Battery Management system with protections built in. So do a little research and compare what is out there. Also, while the Bluetooth of the Liteblox seems like a cool feature... I say be WARY of this. Not because we are jealous, or wish we had it... but rather, because I am thinking if their Anti-Theft system shuts down the battery and you DON"T have your phone with you to turn it on again what do you do? Or perhaps the battery gets over-discharged completely.... then the Bluetooth has no power so how do you turn on the battery again? And what if the Bluetooth software just crashes or locks up... does that mean you can't turn on the battery again? These are things as a Battery designer that would sort of scare me personally. So it's very cool technology... but has it been vetted long term and in emergency situations?

Anyway ultimately you want to choose a battery that's right for your application, to determine what's best for you. And within that you will have your personal preferences that will also determine what you want to go with. Then look at the overall value proposition, what do you get for your money, is the product seasoned and the brand have a solid reputation and can you contact the company easily, and what is the warranty?

I use a Braille Lithium battery, and even after an accidental discharge and miraculous recovery, I will get that AntiGravity battery described above next time. The key point is the weight savings is dramatic and noticeable on track. I went with the Braille especially due to the size - it didn't need any adapter or tray or anything. Second, Braille is the leader in the pro racing industry, so I had confidence in it. Now that I know more, I'd go with AntiGravity next.

The reason this is not a standard feature in the Porsche options is that these batteries do not do well at all in very cold temperatures. BMW has started using them as standard in some M models, so I expect that the technology is improving to the point they are comfortable with it. Scott can probably add more about that. I did take my car to the dealer after I installed the Braille, and they reprogrammed the car to tell the computers that the Porsche Lithium battery was installed, and it now uses much less power when parked, and will last much longer without needing a trickle charge. It did make a difference in discharge while parked, so I suggest you do take it in for programming.

Here's my thread on this process: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turb...y-install.html

I just swapped this battery over to my GT2 RS and will take it over to the dealer for programming in the next week or two, but it also is kept in a climate controlled garage. Good luck!

First of all welcome Antigravity to the forum as a sponsor, we like every company bringing us technology that makes our cars lighter or faster, so we wish you good luck :)

Your posts are very informative, yet too long so forgive me if I am mentioning something you already did :) I am not in this field, but researched a lot before buying, given the use I put on my car, which is part street car with all the original electronics and electrical options, part race mule and also spends considerable amount of time parked. I do not have the cold weather which is to my advantage, but I do use the AC 12 months a year, even on the track (yes). But it is important to Rennlisters to make informed decisions and have as much info as possible between offered options. So some info I know of, and maybe questions you would like to answer..

- First of all your price levels are excellent, for someone looking to reduce weight economically it is a no brainer, regardless of which battery is better or worse in the long run.
- I always have a hard time understanding massive price differences between suppliers and manufacturers of parts in our global economy, especially when some successful companies can stay in business while selling at 2-3x the price of competitors and keep gaining ground. So some questions about Antigravity, are the cells used of the same quality, is the product manufactured in China and assembled in the US, are the specs the same etc..
- For US residents, a well established local supplier is definitely a plus, service, shipping, after sales support etc.. For non US residents, we tend to look sometimes at European/German manufacturers which is closer to home, thats another point of difference for sure, but most of us end up buying 90% of our needs from US tuners and suppliers given the great service we get.
- Liteblox are engineered and manufactured in Germany ,ISO 9001 and have been in business since 2014 working with customers who use their cars as DD, track rats or pure competition, they have a very good reputation.
- Liteblox are equipped with an in house developed BMS, over/under voltage, over/under temperature, over current, short protection etc.. that can be modified via smartphone. Everyone has a smartphone, and once you set it up you don't need to change it.
- Your communication says your batteries have a max charge rate of 20Amps, the Porsche intelligent management system recuperates up to 60Amps in deceleration, the lightweight Liteblox LB26XX is capable of 70 continuous Amps.. Would this create a problem in the long run due to overstrain of your cells, overheating and reduced lifecycle?
- They use premium cell technology Gen 3, (A123 ANR26650M1B for more info) and open about it, are these similar cells to what you use?
- They are not the typical marketing driven company, but rather an R&D/engineering lab and many companies use their in-house labs for development and testing as well.
- These batteries work perfectly after 4 weeks with the 991 parked and no charging.

I am definitely not an expert in this, just as a user it would be interesting to know differences, so that we also understand the value proposition between all the different brands of lightweight batteries, then to each his/her own choosing the best price/quality/weight balance.

I ran into very annoying problems with my car because my original battery had the current drop below 11.9V and never realized it until I went to the dealer, these cars seem to be very sensitive to this.

Jean

Hey Jean, all good questions..... But are you going to read my answers? You said you didn't read my post above because it was long.... So if you asking me questions and want information you gotta read what I say long or not. I'm about getting info out and yes a bit long winded, but I answer the question fully so people don't have so many follow ups.

- First of all your price levels are excellent, for someone looking to reduce weight economically it is a no brainer, regardless of which battery is better or worse in the long run.

So you understand our Starter Batteries are not a lower price because I'm selling a cheaper product, they are lower than others for the most part because; 1) Some companies are charging WAY to much for what is actually inside. meaning they are inflating the costs to a high degree due to the niche nature of the product. 2) They really don't sell alot of product so the pricing for the components is quite high for them due to not ordering a higher number of components. 3) We sell a lot of other Lithium product like our MICRO-START mini Jump STarters... so we know alot of the Cell and component manufacturers well and buy in volume. Also if you are building in USA and importing your cells that can be more expensive. We do both... but for the Auto Batteries, it is in China. But that is not a bad thing. They are the ony country really supplying cells now.


- ...So some questions about Antigravity, are the cells used of the same quality, is the product manufactured in China and assembled in the US, are the specs the same etc.

As far as the cells. We used to use A123 cells. I stopped doing that in 2013, and yes I understand they have made some upgrades. But the fact is that the A123 cell was sensitive to over-discharge, and overcharge, and we tested other cell packs that out-performed the A123 26650M1 in the Pulse Discharge and Constant Current capabilities and that were more resilient to abuse so we bailed on those cells. A123 went bankrupt and is now owned by a Chinese Company, and that is NOT a bad thing. But overall it's just an decent cell that ANYONE can buy. Our cells have a higher C-Rate (higher current discharge per Ah). The A123 Cell our Cells are also Made in China. But there are much bigger battery cell manufacturers than A123, and they do it better than A123. A123 is more readily available throughout the world, just Google "A123 cells" and you can buy some yourself from tons of places.


- Liteblox are engineered and manufactured in Germany ,ISO 9001 and have been in business since 2014
Weve been in business since 2010. We started by building all the batteries ourselves in the USA, and still make 4 of the models in the USA. But we started designing some in depth products and could only do it in China to have a reasonably priced product. Our factory is also ISO 9001 but to clarify ISO 9001 is not a" product" certification but a "management" certification. While something to look at as valuable, it is not indicative of the quality of a product actually. Sounds good but won't matter much in determining Starter Battery overall quality (as we learned about 7 years ago). But that is not saying a Liteblox is bad or anything. Just saying ISO9001 doesn't mean much in reality.

Liteblox is working with customers who use their cars as DD, track rats or pure competition, they have a very good reputation.
That is sissy stuff...any battery can handle a smooth road :D. We come from the off-road side of things. The Truck is the 2018 Lucas Oil Lites Champion Ryan Beat, the MX'er who is going to land on the Moon is Eli Tomac with Monster Energy Kawasaki. the #1 rider in the WORLD in MX/SX. So this is where Braille and Liteblox and most others won't be found. Your battery better be built beyond tough to handle this. So that is an 800 Horsepower V8 in the Trophy Truck. Even though the suspension is great, it does nothing but get massive slams every second on the track with vibration levels and impacts that have to be seen in real life to understand. So we make batteries from 12 ounces up to 15lbs that are used for the toughest Motorsports in tnhe world. WE cover it all.... and have a great reputation for it. So we have the credibility
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...45169bcae.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...7f09cc4949.jpg


- Liteblox are equipped with an in house developed BMS, over/under voltage, over/under temperature, over current, short protection etc.. that can be modified via smartphone. Everyone has a smartphone, and once you set it up you don't need to change it.
We also have all those protections, but I'm not onboard with Bluetooth thing, I think it opens up a potential for a big problem. I think its a bit too much to put bluetooth into a battery that can actually turn off the battery. My opinion is this.... What if the battery goes completely dead and the blue tooth can't be energized either but it requires your PHONE to turn it back on. Or say you accidentally trigger the Anti-theft feature of Liteblox and it shuts the car off, but you don't have your cell phone with you, or your phone battery is dead so you are stuck?. Does that mean you can't start the car because its immobilized and your phone went dead, so you can't even access the App? What if there is a bug or crash in the bluetooth software or your App get corrupted? Are you left with a Battery that won't awaken if you shut it off. It's cool sounding and if it works it neat... but if it fails it has a potential to be a massive problem.

We actually have an external Bluetooth Device and App coming out late this month.. but it is NOT "IN" the battery itself. It is just a monitoring device anyone can put on a Lead or Lithium Battery. But it tracks your voltage, shows your starting performance and checks your charging system. Different ways to skin a cat.

- Your communication says your batteries have a max charge rate of 20Amps, the Porsche intelligent management system recuperates up to 60Amps in deceleration, the lightweight Liteblox LB26XX is capable of 70 continuous Amps.. Would this create a problem in the long run due to overstrain of your cells, overheating and reduced lifecycle?
That number for Max Charge rate is a conservative stated number that will keep people from sticking an in- appropriate external chargers on the battery. Also, so you better understand... the SMALLER the Lithium battery the LESS recharge Amperage it can handle. So a Liteblox is almost HALF the capacity of the RS-30 so in reality the Liteblox could only handle HALF the charging rate of our RS-30 would handle. It is based on the C-Rate for charging. Being conservative you would normally say "charge a Lithium battery at 1C" ... 1amp per Ah of the battery. So on the Liteblox it woud be about 17Amp Max charge rate. On our it would be 30Amp Max charge rate. So our could handle more Amps by almost half when using that standard. But you can actually do it more than 1C charge rate..... Anyway, the cars charging system is not anything to worry about for either of our batteries and anything a 17Ah battery could handl the RS-30 would beat it by a long shot.

- They use premium cell technology Gen 3, (A123 ANR26650M1B for more info) and open about it, are these similar cells to what you use?
I explained about A123 above. From testing ours are better. We also do alot more Lithium Batteries and Products that most any competitor. Keep in mind we have and were arguably the first to bring the mini Jump Starter to market. Our MICRO-START mini jump starter came out in 2013...we sold almost 1 million of them to date. We make 18 sizes and models of Starter Lithium Batteries from 12 Ounces to 15 lbs for Motorcycles, Powersport, and Automotive. So we know what works the best and have tested alot of different cells from many different companies.

- They are not the typical marketing driven company, but rather an R&D/engineering lab and many companies use their in-house labs for development and testing as well.

You better look a bit closer there... They are ABSOLUTELY a marketing company for sure, and I like the way way they do it! There's nothing wrong with being passionate about and trying to sell your product. If you are paying $2000 dollars for a battery you better have some good marketing and features to get that sale. We also market as best we can, but ours is a bit more toward trying to show we do alot of everything and are not so niche, and have a reasonable prices point . We want to bring Lithium more to the masses yet still be know as having the best product. So that our angle. I want EVERYBODY to be using it sooner than later. I'm not so interested in doing Carbon Fiber or Bluetooth at this time. I don't find i Doing the Carbon Fiber. Belive me its marketing and very good. And we do it our way also. So this is about marketing for sure and don't confuse that.

- These batteries work perfectly after 4 weeks with the 991 parked and no charging.
With the RS-30 we have cars sitting 2 months.... you can't compare a 17Ah battery to a 30Ah battery in anyway in terms of RESERVE capacity. The actual length of time a car will sit depends on any aftermarket accessories, or other items that may dramatically increase the parasitic draw on the battery. Additionally the year of the car will also effect this since the newer models usually have a much better battery management system that shuts down the cars electronics earlier and drops the parasitic draw down significantly. But again a 17Ah battery compared to a 30Ah battery isn't even comparable. Think of it like this. I give you 17 eggs , and I get 30 eggs. We each eat an egg each morning, and we will DIE if we don't eat that egg. Whos going to live longer. You with 17 eggs or me with 30 eggs. Your dead way before me. You got super flashy Easter eggs, and that is nice. I got a regular egg with some cool stripes. but saved $1100 dollar and got more eggs and lived longer. So I personally think my eggs were better than yours. But eggs are in the eyes of the beholder, so maybe a more basic egg isn't your style.

It all good though, we all have a few good options for what you want.

@Antigravity Would you please consider a group buy for your new cell specifically for the enthusiasts on Rennlist? I would sign up immediately for it. Thanks for considering!

Scott - really appreciate the time you spent in the post above to educate us. I've been on the fence about this, but will likely move to Lithium soon, and after your post Anti-Gravity is at the top of my list.

Hi Guys, we are literally just days away from getting things together. We just need to make sure we have all materials together and set up accordingly to make sure everything goes smoothly once released. Thanks for your patience.

Hi Guys, just a sneak peak. All the details to come shortly!

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=...d=ii_jrqrwp3t0

Antigravity, I'm sure you know this, but that last link does not work. Looking forward to your new product updates of course!

Any updates on this? I see the new batteries on the website. I am assuming the H6/30Ah would work on a 991 TTS.

Good morning everyone, so this here is a snip below from a post we did on the new battery found in this thread we posted on Renn https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...m-battery.html

Hi All,

Scott from Antigravity Batteries, I wanted to drop some information on our NEWEST Lithium Batteries... yes they are actually ground-breaking.

– We wanted to make the new battery accessible for more Vehicles and Customers. We found many people just wanted the EXACT SIZE that fit in their car. So that is what we did, the new batteries are a DIRECT OEM FIT. Meaning it is the same size as your stock battery, so you will not need a special tray or any other adapters or modifications to mount them. Being this is a GT3 Forum you guys will mostly ever be concerned with the H6/Group48 size battery. So we did that size and also the H5 and H7. Plus we will have Group 35 ,and Group 51 and expand out from there. But the "H" sizes are used in most all the Porsches, and other Euro Sports Cars including BMW, Audi, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc.... so these will fit them all.

– We have also made the batteries available in different amp hours. The Amp Hours Capacities available for the H6/Group48 model are 24Ah, 30Ah, and 40Ah. By offering different amp hours the Customer can choose a battery that is more tailored to what they are looking for. For example people who track and want the lightest weight possible might want the 24Ah (9.5lbs), a person who wants to have a solid Ah yet still benefit substantially from Lightweight can go with a 30Ah (11.5lbs) and a person who might have some Cameras, Radar Detectors and other stuff on the Car might want a 40Ah Battery (16lbs) TT Guys or SUV guys. Keep in mind if you use a 24Ah battery you will not have as much time that the car can sit in storage compared to a 40Ah model.

– SUPER COOL NEW FEATURE ALERT!!! So one of the ULTRA-COOL items we developed into this latest battery (yep, first in the world) is a WIRELESS KEYFOB REMOTE that is used to operate our RE-START built in Jump-Starting feature. If you are not familiar with our RE-START feature, its basically a built-in jump starting for the battery, so in the event you ever come back to a dead battery you can awaken the battery with the Keyfob and start the car and drive off. So in effect you would never be stranded with a dead battery.

- OK, let me set this up.... wait for it.......... Antigravity raises its arms in Triumph, applause from the smiling Porsche enthusiast crowd, some Unicorns dancing off to the side.... and states...... " WITH THIS KEYFOB, YOU WON"T EVER BE LOCKED OUT OF YOUR FRUNK AGAIN!" crowd goes wild... fade to black. Ok, so maybe not so exciting for some of you, but it is a big deal for some of us. . First day I got my GT3, on a battery swap I locked myself out of the frunk and cursed how stupid it was to have to go to the Fuse Panel and energize the car to open the frunk, so with the new Keyfob just press the button on the Keyfob, the Battery then awakens and energizes your car to be ready for a Start or you can just open the Frunk.

- Weight of the Batteries H6/Group48 Case @24Ah is 9.8 lbs , H6/Group48 Case @30Ah is (11.5lbs) , H6/Group48 Case @40Ah is (16.5.5lbs).

-Availability.... finished production will be at the end of February we expect to be shipping in first week of March. We are initially doing the 24Ah and 40Ah models, the 30Ah Version will not be in until April. I currently have 10 pieces of H6 @24Ah models and 10 pieces of H6 @ 40Ah that we have used to take pictures, and develop Marketing materials, some we will be sent Industry people, but unfortunately that is not enough to openly sell them yet. So early March if not a week before we can start shipping.

-Pricing... The prices will range from $679 for the 24Ah Versions going up to $829.99 for the 40Ah Versions. Feel free to compare that to our competitors... we are over 1/3 to 1/2 less in cost with more advanced technology, built in protections that most don't offer, and just a more realistic and reasonable price point. We might offer pre-orders starting in week, but we are trying to get a hard landing date so we can make sure we ship when we say we will.

Some pictures are below... if you have any questions please let me know.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...2db124bec6.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5301d6bdd6.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...1a017aacce.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...af6f18196d.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c18ef48170.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...55a6676fef.jpg

1-Will there be a group purchase offer?
2- Can I still use my CTEK 4.3 battery maintainer?

Nothing at this time for a group buy as we're just try to make sure we can everything launched accordingly, there may of course be one down the road. CTEK puts out a really solid product but if I'm not mistaken that model might be for lead/acid so that would be a no and you'd want to get a version specifically for Lithium.

This looks like really nice work, AG! I've been happy with my Braille, but if I had the chance to get another, I'd probably go with that!

I over-discharged the Braille by accident and had to run to town to buy a lead battery while I was at the track. This battery would have recovered nicely, and I wouldn't have to go through the recovery process to get the Braille working again.

I'm a big fan of these 'stock sized' lithium batteries and I will be a future customer, thanks for the update!

No argument, Braille is in most Road Racing Cars, but if you are driving your car on the Street and doing Track, it is not really a great battery due to the lack of protections. But I'll give you some basic info below and you can take it as you will.

So for a Race team with a mechanic watching and maintaining the battery all the time, is quite a different use from a Sports/Passenger Cars used for Track, but also as regular Street Cars. They are dramatically different animals... The Braille Battery does not have any protections... so if there is an accidental over-discharge of the battery then you have potentially damaged your very expensive battery. Additionally without protections there are much higher chances of Thermal Runaway and worst case scenario fire. But the point being our Antigravity Battery has the full protections needed for the best in safety, long life, and not leaving you stranded. That means over-charge, over-discharge, thermal, and short circuit protection, as well as Cell Balancing. In terms of technology, Braille has none... its just the cells directly to the battery's terminals, we are light years ahead of that. We also make batteries that do not have the protections, and they are used for racing, but even our batteries without protections have Cell Balancing at a minimum. So I'm not knocking Race Batteries or Braille's quality as a Race battery.... but for real world Sports Cars and daily driver use it not even comparable.

I know Braille is big in the Road Race community.... which I understand most the Porsche guys including myself follow... but I would warn against thinking a battery that is winning races in race cars is what you want for your Porsche that you drive on the Street, or Track. Race Batteries are usually smaller to fit into compact areas, we make those also but I'm not going to recommend those batteries for people who are driving on the street. Its just not reliable enough.

I also understand many of you have not heard of us being we are entering our second year in pushing the "Street" side of things. But don't judge us on that...because we are actually more known and used than you may think. We sell quite a few more batteries than Braille, but its across a wider channel. For example we have 61,000 Facebook Likes, (yes I know , who gives a crap) Braille have 2,200 Facebook Likes. We have 7,000 followers on Instagram, they have 1,200 followers. Yes, I know these are not all encompassing metrics... but they do give you an idea of our penetration and fan base in comparison.

Good comments Antigravity, some of us get caught up in 'race' thoughts who actually do street drive their cars much more regularly. I for one am interested in the protections for my 'real world' use case.

Good points. I'm just a battery buyer and user. I'm sure you have forgotten more than I'll ever know about Lithium Batteries. A few "hard knocks" lessons I have learned over the years racing have stayed with me. Lithium/build quality is like fuel. There are different grades. The OEM Lithium in my F90 is different then my Braille's. I have already read about F90 batteries failing in a few months. Braille has a 1/2% failure rate. Must be doing something right in the build quality and design to get that. I've never had one fail or discharge. But Competition is awesome for the end consumer. Brings better products and lower prices. I wish you well !

I'm still struggling with this choice. Part of the challenge is it takes a week to ship from California. My battery is already dead. Also I have a slow puncture in my tire so need new tires and battery. I booked it into the dealer for Friday, but they are quoting $681 for Porsche battery, $311 for aftermarket battery. That's compared with $750 shipped for the Antigravity.

Also I doubt I will keep my car more than a year because I want to sell before CPO expires in August 2020. Don't know if the lithium battery makes it easier to sell or harder. Usually secondary buyers like everything factory.

I was originally going to buy the SUNCOAST OEM battery but with shipping that is over $400 which seems too much for old tech.

Get the Car running and get a cheap Lead/Acid.... Then if you chose to go lithium before you sell your car remember you just keep the Lithium and put the Lead back in your Car and put the Lithium in your NEXT Car. I say this because if you buy an H6 size battery that will fit most every performance European Car as well as most non-performance European Cars on the Market... as well as many late model America Cars.

Here's why. Most all the Euro Cars use either the H6, H7, H8 Batteries... and MOST (except Porsche) mount the battery with cleats on the Battery using the FRONT AND BACK footers of the battery.... So that mean you can fit ANY "H" model battery in ALL those Carsbecause ALL the "H" series Batteries have the EXACT same WIDTH and HEIGHT.

It's sort of the same with Porsche because they mount from Left to Right with the cleat, but they have 3 screw holes in the Porsche Battery tray so you can use either H6, H7, H8 sizes also. But most the other Euro Cars are easier because they all use that standardized from to back size, so not matter how long the battery is it will still fit. That goes for VW, BMW , Ferrari, Lambos, Audis etc... So you can use our Battery to fit in the next Car you buy if its a Euro Car ( in most circumstances).

Also I will explain it here for those who don't know.... all the H6/ H7/ H8 batteries have the exact same HEIGHT and WIDTH.... with only the LENGTH changing.... But the Porsche Trays have extra bolt holes to fit the longer or shorter distances between the H6/H7/H8 models .... so you can use any of them, but they get longer and heavier as the size goes up. So it depends on how many amp hours you want. But they all work. H6 is the smallest... and we actually offer and H5 which is smaller, but the Porsche Tray won't fit that one because it doesn't have a bolt hold to fit the smaller H5 battery length, but the other Euro Cars do because they mount from front to back and H5 is same width as H6,

Scott

Now that my car is operational again I am looking into getting a lithium battery. Most likely your new 40AH H6.

I do have some concerns though having read some reviews of your products on Amazon and Reddit:
1) The amazon reviews of your micro starter battery packs have several complaints about the battery expanding after a year or so. Obviously this implies these micro starter packs don't have a BMS to prevent overcharging or it isn't working properly. Further some of these amazon reviews mention issues with warranty claims.
2) I read this 3 year old review on Reddit. Obviously one off failures can occur. But what concerned me more is the comments about your warranty on that thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles...N0&sh=8b07b3e7

So I then read your warranty for the Automotive battery.
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...-Batteries.pdf

Now a few things concern me about your warranty:
1) There are a lot of exclusions. I understand an exclusion for physical damage - that makes sense. But I would have thought your BMS would render most of the other exclusions unnecessary. Surely a BMS would shut down charging if it is getting too much voltage or being overcharged for instance? Likewise you have warranty exclusions for over discharge of the battery and over discharge due to parasitic drains. Isn't the value proposition of your battery that this cannot happen as the BMS prevents overdischarge? So why is it an exclusion in the warranty? This exclusion implies the BMS doesn't function as claimed!
2) One of your exclusions is that you won't honor the warranty if the vehicle's charging system over charges the battery. However you also say you have deliberately not coded your own Porsche for the lithium battery you installed which means you are running this risk. When you posted that you seem to be contradicting your own warranty. I would have thought you should be mandating the update of the software to ensure the vehicles voltage regulator is Lithium-safe IF you are later going to use this to deny a warranty claim. Without coding the vehicles voltage regulator is set for an AGM lead acid battery. So is Antigravity's position that a dead battery that was overcharged by the vehicle's regulator would not be covered under warranty if the owner had not had the dealer code his car for lithium prior to installation?
3) You limit the warranty replacements to just one over the 5 year period. I don't understand why you would have such a limit if you stand behind your product and you also have stringent limitations within your warranty to exclude any claim that could even vaguely be caused by user behavior.

Please can you explain? I'm hoping you will say you have a new automotive battery warranty policy to reflect the in built protections of your new automotive battery and that the one on your website that I linked above is out of date.

Just to be clear I am quite excited about buying your battery. The level of innovation is state of the art. But it is a new product and at $800+ I need to have a degree of confidence that if it fails I am covered and that people vouch for your warranty.

In most cases the swelling is just a high-temperature issue such as with the MICRO-START being left on the dash or other susceptible area in a hot climate, and it also VERY rare, but when it happens it will be blasted about for sure on Amazon, even after we replaced the unit to the customer. Also note we have it clearly written in the Users Manual NOT to leave it in areas in excess of 120 degrees because swelling may happen.

Additionally this is a Lithium Polymer product which is a much more sensitive form of Lithium-Ion chemistry than what is used in a Automotive Battery (Iron-Phosphate) and will swell when exposed to temps over 120F for a period of time. It can also swell if over-stressed, meaning depending on the model they use, sometimes they can over stress it by using it on too big of a motor than intended or over-cranking it. Its a pocket size jump starter and has its limitation and can be overheated by the methods I just described. Additionally some have swelled and we don't know why. So there are variable within any bad review.

Often times we will get a bad review after not allowing a Warranty. For example if we see the plug in tip for the Clamps burned that is a direct sign the mini- jump starter was used in a way that allowed extremely high heat to develop in the plastic plug in tip... which is rated at about 300 degrees to melt... so if it melts you were either cranking for longer than 7 seconds, which we specifically state not to do, or you were trying to start a larger harder to start vehicle. So there are variables in why a unit may swell but it is surely not often..... regardless of the Amazon statements. Not saying every swelling issue was the Customers fault, but I am saying there are variables and if you anger some Customers with a declined Warranty you will get surely a bad rating on Amazon.

To add another level of information onto this.....you are probably not aware of how many of the MICRO-START we have sold.... We actually broke 1 MILLION units sold since 2013. We originated that product in 2013, the FIRST to market with an innovative product... yep, just like the Car Battery . Also note we were awarded Consumer Reports "Best Rated Jump Starter" for the XP-10 model. That is an entirely independent testing at Consumer Reports and it was against 14 other models in the comparison. Does that mean we have not had problems ever and its perfect... not at all, but compared to other products we are still top of the class.

Also your statement saying that "obviously this implies our MICRO-START does not have a BMS to prevent over-charging or doesn't work." That a pretty big jump to conclusions when your not aware of how the product works. The fact is it does have a BMS, but there are two different Circuits on this type jump start product... I think you are trying to logically conclude that the MICRO-START and the Automotive Starter Batteries are the same products and would act the same, and do the same thing. They are not. Its two very different Lithium chemistry's that requiring vastly different parameters in how they are charged and are used with Automobiles. Lithium Polymer such as the jump starter cannot be used as a Starter Battery for a Car. Nor is the circuity for the protections the same. So they can't be compared at all.

Well again... perspective...You are presenting a 3 year old review of a NON-PROTECTED Battery vs our latest Technology...they are vastly different. If you read my posts here and elsewhere on this site regarding Lithium Batteries without Protections, I speak of the risk/ dangers of it. I also stated we STILL make Models of batteries without protections, and we still sell a ton of them, they absolutely have their use. So the guy who posted on Reddit was using this type of NON-PROTECTED Battery. And IF you read my earlier posts you would also see I spoke of the causes of Thermal Runaway such as defective Voltage Regulators ( very important mostly in older Motorcycles) putting out too much voltage, over-discharge of the battery, then recharging too fast from a low state of charge, or using a Lead/Acid Charger on Lithium Battery. I've spoke of this on multiple threads..... We address these risk potentials in our Users Manual that every battery comes with, we address the dangers with Lithium Batteries in our Users Manual and on the battery itself with a Warning Sticker. We address the use of these batteries in pre 1990s Motorcycles (which the Reddit person had) and the potential for defective/outdated voltage regulators in older Motorcycles. Yet there will still occasionally be a customer who says "its all the batteries fault only". Well if the battery was swollen, we pretty much KNOW it was over-charged, or put on a lead acid charger. It WILL NOT do that out of the blue. There has to be some type of high stress to the battery for Thermal Runaway to happen.

I'm sure we probably denied his warranty and he was going to bash us about it, and he was probably upset, but if you are NOT following our instruction for the safest operation, then we will deny the Warranty. When you open the box for any of our Small Case Batteries without these protections the first thing you will see is the USERS MANUAL WARNING because our Users Manual is on top of the battery once you open the box... If someone feels they will not take the time to read our Users Manual, when it clearly states DANGER! WARNING! READ THIS MANUAL FIRST! ...then they are taking risks OUTSIDE of our statements for safe operation.

This is why we developed the RE-START batteries to eliminate most of that risk. The Custom Motorcycle Market is 90% of any warranties we get... that is due to the fact that most the bikes are old and have faulty/outdated voltage regulators, and back yard builders who DON'T know about electrical systems or voltage regulators and stick a Lithium Battery into a 1990s and earlier Bike with 18v spiking into the battery... and it melts down. They didn't read the two sections about checking for this in pre 1990s bikes they ignored reading the Users Manual. So YES, our staff will deny the Warranty, and if you DID NOT READ our Users Manual, and chose to do things as you see fit, you are going to be offended when we tell you "this battery is severely swollen and that can only occur with over-charge"...but if you are like 99% of Customers and choose to understand the product then you are going to have a great experience with the products.

Here's our Warranty information page... and if you read our Warranty Ex plainer you will also see how in-depth we are about our Warranty.

Warranty Help Page...... https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/help-center/info-downloads/#product-registration-warranties] https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...ion-warranties

Warranty Explainer Page, which CLEARLY explains all about the causes of Warranty issues. https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...ion-warranties

I'll address your other parts to you email later about the Starter Battery Warranty.

I just did a search of Antigravity batteries on Amazon. Nearly all have 4 stars or higher. If there was any real issue at all, they would not have products with over a thousand reviews and 4 stars or higher. Remember, people typically only do reviews when they are mad.

Very true, and why I try to force myself to give positive ratings too, as they are absolutely due when we have been treated well or have been provided with a superior product or service.

I may not have written the question clearly enough so let me rephrase:

1) One of the compelling characteristics of your new Automotive battery is that the BMS protects the battery against over discharge and over charging. Given that this is the case, does your warranty for the new battery still exclude warranty claims relating over charging or over discharging?

2) Why do you limit the warranty replacements to only 1 battery?

I read your post and fully understand it..... BUT If you read the last sentence in that post I wrote you, I say ll will address your questions about he Warranties on the new Starter batteries later. I am out of the office snowboarding to be exact... I'll get back to you this evening on this.... and I WANT to address it clearly.

I will want one of the new batteries when they're available. I looked up the OEM size and it looks like an H8 for my '15 991 Turbo. I assume if I want the 40Ah model it will be a slightly shorter H7, but it will fit, right?

Also, to answer someone else's question, yes you will need a Li-ion-specific charger/maintainer. Here's a CTEK one that I'm getting. https://www.ctek.com/products/vehicle/lithium-xs

This should have the fittings actually for multiple H series sizes as most of the other modern Porsche's do so while you could go with the H7 you should still even be able to to with the H6 as well. You should be able to see the option cleat locations for mounting when you remove the existing and yes, we would definitely agree the 40Ah option would be the way to go as well.

Ahhh...good catch! Our site has a template that was used when we were setting up the new line but still based off of our motorsports batteries. The truth is the H series will be 24, 30, and 40 actual Ah (not Pb Eq) So we'll be getting that updated and sorry if it created any confusion. So to clarify the 40Ah option will be the largest available. And technically yes, the expanded line is an even bigger improvement on the awesome RS-30 as these will let you access an even deeper capacity but still allow for the dedicated reserve for Re-Start. They also do stay active until they go into sleep mode and have the fob remote feature which was not available on the RS-30.

Are you represented or shipping this new unit into Canada yet?

Nanook - what is your take on running our Dashcams and Antilaser systems with these lower Ah batteries? Should we be worried about parasitic drain?

Is there any electrical or capacity difference between your H6 and your soon to be H7, if both are 40Ah? Is it just the case size or are there more plates or whatever inside?

Good question...I think a supplemental power source such as a Power Magic module would be a good idea for the dashcam.. although I see no issues with detectors or jammers since they operate while the car is running and draw very little current,,
I have a Power Magic unit (I think there is a newer unit with a different name now) but never installed it in my now gone '14 and always left it on while the car was parked with no issues....when my new '19 arrives it will immediately get a new antilaser system, front and rear Blackvue cameras and this 40a lithium battery ( along with other goodies already in hand) and I really don't foresee any potential power issues.....I say with with a caveat that when I had and will install these devices I had power kill switches installed using the unused console buttons allowing me to power all devices off for longer term parking...not to mention very handy to immediate kill the ALP in a targeted situation.

Ok it is scott again, wanted to finish answering your questions about our Warranty. Chad is answer the other questions while I'm out.

While your points are logical to you... they are not accurately reflecting what a business must do to protect itself from the infrequent but actual Customer Complaints or Warranty issues that accompany using something like a battery. There are many variables within a system that has a battery. Such as User Maintenance, additional electronics added to a system that can create a much higher level of parasitic draw, use in applications outside what we recommend them for. So we have encountered those issues and several more. After we sell a battery we do NOT know how it is maintained, if the user has other electronics on the car that create a drain so heavy that the Car drains the battery within a week or two. So we have to cover ourselves for the Customer that will eventually blame all the woes on the battery. And it does happen. They will not take responsibility for adding extra accessories to the car that make the battery drain faster. They will not accept responsibility for using a Lead/Acid Charger even if they do. We will also be blamed for the car not starting even though they have a Camera, Theft alarm , a big stereo wired into the car wrong. They will defeat the systems on our batteries by manipulating them. And if that aftermarket accessory is draining the hell out of the battery, they won't blame it... they will blame the battery for not having and infinite supply of power. So again this is RARE... but these are the facts. So we have to put something into place to cover this.

You wrote at the end of the paragraph above " this exclusion implies the BMS doesn't function as claimed".... NO, YOU imply this, we are not implying any such thing. But I can understand how you came to that conclusion. Here are a couple examples why we put this..
.
1- You have a car and that alternator is broken, it is spiking 18v to the battery.... after a certain amount of time our battery fails because it has been subjected to 18v from this faulty problem on YOUR CAR. Nothing to do with our Battery or its quality. It is your vehicles faulty system. So are we responsible for the faulty system in your Car? Am I supposed to be building a product that allows YOUR faulty system to continue to be faulty and my product is then supposed to cure this and offer long term protection against this? The over-charge feature was NOT meant to fix a faulty system, but provide a level of short term spikes in over-charge.

2-You keep putting our battery on a Lead/Acid Charger... though our User's Manual and Warnings on the Battery state NOT to do this... but you think you don't have to adhere to our maintenance procedures and after months on this lead/acid charger the battery finally fails. So are we supposed to develop a product that compensates for your lack of proper maintenance, and responsibility to use the proper charger as we suggested and require?

3- Let say you like cranking the Stereo at your local Cars and Coffee in your WRX, and blasting your favorite Kanye West... well you drain our battery down until is shuts off when Kanye is grooving really hard. So you get pissed because you drained the battery... but you know you can press the RE-START button and get another few minutes of play times.... so you do that.... then the battery cuts off again.... so you press the RE-START button again... then again.to hear a few more bits of your song. We'll your effective ruining our system and massively over-discharging and ruining the battery. Even though our Warranty clearly states the RE-START is and EMERGENCY START SYSTEM and should ONLY EVER BE USED FOR THAT. So in your ignorance and failure to follow instructions you have over-discharged a perfectly good battery? Is Antigravity Batteries responsible for that? Are we supposed to provide a product that protects every aspect of the Users failures to maintain or use a product as intended?

So while I feel your questions are completely legitimate, and its great to do due diligence.... you are the one implying our system doesn't work because we have warranty exclusion. It not accurate to state one thing effects the others. Our system works fine, but won't cover issue such as above. Our system is not fool proof and can be manipulated, and will be by some users. How is that our responsibility?

Also you state we have a lot of exclusions, but we follow the typical warranty issues of all battery companies. You can review the Odyssey Battery Warranty here. http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...-ODY-WS-AA.pdf

IF the system is faulty, it would not be covered. IF the vehicle is charging using the regular AGM, or Flooded algorithm then it will work for our battery. there is no special charging setting like "lithium" that MUST be selected. We have seen it work both ways as I explained. These normals charging systems are standardized in Automobiles and do not charge above 15v. And an occasional spike above 15v will not affect the battery because of it protections. But if you system is outside of the Standard then that is a FAULTY SYSTEM.
So I'm not seeing how I am contradicting myself as you state. A Lead/Acid Charger is NOT the same as the Charging system in a car. Maybe thats what you mean?

We are not being anymore strict or less strict than the warranties within our industry. Additionally we have had persons who will manipulate the system and use the battery in an un-intended way and then can keep coming back for a new battery. If you having to go through more than two of our batteries then there is something else wrong in the system.

Last, when we look at this in a broader perspective.... Do you understand the RENNLIST Community? Well if you don't, they are not going to suffer any bull**** at all. They will call out any product that doesn't work, they will ask every question possible from every angle, and call me out if I'm talking crap. This is not a crowd of ignorant 18 year-olds that can be swayed with a bunch of mumbo jumbo claims of saving 35lbs, this is a crowd of quite knowledgeable people. So I'm not going to come on here and talk a bunch of baloney to get a sales then screw people over and severely damage my business. That will just bite me in the butt and get a community of unhappy people here saying we are screwing people over and Antigravity sucks. On the other hand if our product works.... this is going to elevate our status in the Premium Car market much more quickly than some other forums. So my point is I'm not messing around here and we are going to not stand behind our product.

NO... all the Ah Capacity will work the same way.... only thing different is the Case Sizes so they fit how you want them to. 40Ah is the same no matter WHAT the exterior case is doing. So in essence its the same battery pack and BMS being put into different Cases

You need to run the accessory dash cams battery... I think that Battery Magic is the one..... we have had our ONLY issues with the RS-30 occur in cars with the dash cams.... most were couple with Radar Detectors but the Dash Cam external battery eliminated the rapid parasitic draw.... people were tying into the Porsche system and for whatever reason it created a pretty good parasitic draw. So use that proprietary dash cam battery for sure. Wile the batteriies will handle charging a dash cam, we don't want it tied into a lower actual amp hour battery at all... we'e seen it mess with the RS-30.

We are represented in Canada through a few different locations however at this time they do not have access to the batteries, We can of course ship direct to Canada but it would just be a matter of getting an address and figuring out cost from there.
You can email chad@antigravitybatteries.com if you'd like to look further into this as well.

Antigravity offers a 5 year warranty, the first 3 are direct replacement, and the final two are prorated. That's better than Braille, Optima or Banner or any other battery I can find. I don't think this is an issue.

Just to add some info to this there are a few systems for protecting the car battery:

This shuts the camera down when the battery reaches a preset level
https://www.kmph.ca/products/power-magic-pro

And these provide power when the vehicle is parked:
https://www.kmph.ca/products/cellink...ck-for-dashcam
https://www.kmph.ca/products/blackvue-b112-battery-pack

The problem here is how do you know if the issue was a faulty alternator, or an incorrect charger used, or a faulty lithium charger, or an idiot using the restart to get a few extra minutes of playtime?

By excluding overcharging and over discharge, you are assuming the BMS NEVER fails, and the issue is ALWAYS faulty customer equipment or bad customer behavior.

While I have no doubt that sometimes the customer may have a faulty alternator, or be using an incorrect battery charger, I also believe that sometimes the software on your battery could fail.

Also while I appreciate the value of the opinion of the Rennlist community, I cannot find a single Turbo S driver on this particular section who has an Antigravity battery. There are some who recently ordered one, but no longstanding users. You come across very well and make a great first impression, but it's not like lots of board members I know have been using your batteries for years without issues, nor can I find any example of anyone who has made a successful warranty claim on this section of the board. So reputation is unproven - although first impression is solid.

If I was you I would offer rennlist members a solid warranty that reflects the fact that your battery has built-in protections that the competition cannot match. I for one want to buy your battery, but not on the terms of your warranty.

My statements don't seem to meet your needs or requirements. I can only suggest you look at your other options.

Your statement that we should offer Rennlist Member a solid warranty is a bit offensive to me since we already offer a great warranty on the product. You also imply that there are no Turbo owners are using us... that is quite wrong. So from my perspective it appears your needs have not been met by Antigravity Batteries so its not a good fit for you. The best options are probably Braille, Lithium Pros or Volt Phreaks. Braille is not your best option if you want protections. I recommend Volt Phreaks well before the other companies I mentioned.

That's a matter of opinion. If you have a BMS that prevents overcharge and over discharge as you claim in your marketing materials then your warranty should back that up. There is a fundamental disconnect between your marketing statements and your warranty.


Those two quotes show a clear inconsistency.



What I implied that there is no post on this part of the site by a 991TTS owner who has been using your product for a year or more who has reviewed it and said it is a reliable battery based on that experience. If you disagree prove it and show me a link to the post.

Agree. But a lot of people do have after market drains.

I for one have a Thinkware dashcam and a radar detection and laser jamming system.

In principle the Thinkware shouldn't pose an issue because it has software that monitors battery voltage and cuts off at a user determined threshold which I set at 11.9v.

For both yourself and steathpilot. I have done my best to explain the characteristics of Lithium, and the benefits of having protections. I have spoken only in facts, if it does not work for you, or you don't agree with what I am saying, or you feel our product isn't to your liking please look at your options. I'm not hear to "defend" Antigravity Batteries, we have nothing to defend. We are putting out what we feel it the best Lithium option for Cars at this time. As I said before there are options for both of you. I am not saying you have to buy our products. Do your research and let the company you feel is best win your business.

Stealth Pilot, you asked how we would know if you battery failed due to over-charge..... the cells would be "puffed/swelled". If we didn't see that then we would know the battery was not over-charged. We open the batteries to check warranty. You are stating I'm being contradictory which I don't feel is accurate, and I won't get into an argumentative dialog, it easier to just pass on our product. I feel this is muddying the water of the facts. You feel I'm being deceptive or something, and that is unfortunate. So let agree we are NOT the best company for you to buy a product from.

onfireTTS, there are absolute risks without having protections. Your claim of Braille having a 1/2% failure rate is a statement THEY put on their website, I'm not sure of the accuracy. We have been called by numerous Braille Users who are choosing to buy Antigraivity due to failures. So that is all debatable. But lets talk facts...without protections the possibility of the Lithium Battery failing due to over-discharge is 100% higher, because the protected battery won't allow the over-discharge. That just ONE reason of the several to have protections. As far as you feel I am bashing Braille, or getting political, (disagree on the political thing) The battery you put a picture of is a $2400 dollar battery, it is built with a cell pack of Lithium Batteries going directly to the Terminals. No protections or Circuitry. Its a fine battery if you maintain it. There are other companies that have these protections that I am not calling out... so to be clear its not about Braille alone, it about not having modern typical protections yet charging extremely inflated pricing for the product. I'm stating FACTs... that is WAY too much money for what they offer. I'm not saying it won't work, and not saying its junk.... saying its an exceptionally expensive battery without even the most basic protection and latest technology that would protect it from damage or Thermal Runaway. You also said you used 3 of the Braille Batteries in 7-8 years.... that is not a good record. You are averaging 2.5 years for each battery, and that is not a good statistic for a lithium battery. The Antigraviity Battery warranty alone is 3 year Direct replace. Maybe you meant you have 3 different cars each with a Braille? And did they cover the warranty if you only got 2.5 years outr of their battery? Did they honor your warranty?

onfireTTS, there is a fascination with OVER-DISCHARGE because this has been one of the biggest problems in all the history of Batteries.... You say you have never had a problem with a battery over-discharging in 42 years is quite the incredible statistic. I cant think of a person I know who has never had a dead battery, or come back to an over-discharged battery.. So the fascination is because, this is a real issue, not something I'm making up , but additionally in many of today's cars people can drain their battery, and that may lead to needing outside assistance, or as in Porsche and many other cars you can't even access the battery because you can't even open the hood on your Frunk if the battery goes dead. So what we, Antigravity Batteries, have developed prevents that. If you feel that is not beneficial then you have no need for what we offer, then obviously go with what you feel works for you. For most persons this is a pretty incredible feature, and to be able to access built-in jump starting with a Keyfob is pretty ingenious. If you think paying $2400 dollars for a battery without any such feature that is another choice.

Great point. I will do the same thing and switch it from a live circuit to one that switches off with the ignition.