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Logically, the PIWIS needs the Amp Hour spec of the battery to better control the use of the start/stop system.
I've also had long numerous conversations with Porsche Techs. Porsche A.G. tells them - basically - nothing about the inner workings of any of the software-driven systems.
When I got the RS I told the Dealership and Tech what we do, and that later I would bring the car in for a PIWIS change over to the LIHTIUM Battery.... So during that conversation and asked about the PIWIS system change and what it does. The tech pulled it up for me and showed me what they can do.... for example they can select the type of battery Lead or Lithium and then the Amp Hours for the particular battery and set that up in the Cars system. But what he told me was that Porsche doesn't even tell the Techs EXACTLY what that does but rather just goes over the basics like the system changes some setting that might assist a lower Amp Hour battery to retain a charge longer, but again he said there were no exact details in the changes that actually occur in the system. But I will say that I am running our Antigravity RS-30 in the GT3 RS and I WILL NOT be changing the PIWIS to a Lithium setting for the next 6 months so I can make sure that there is no ill effect if the change to the PIWIS is not made. I am also tracking the voltage after I bring the car in from a drive and while idling and driving (connected a voltmeter so i can track it while driving), and while the car is sitting to see if any weird voltage or charging is occuring. So far there is no indication of any anomaly what so ever in using our Lithium Battery in the CarRS and without having changed it to the LIHTIUM setting in PIWIS.
The RS in in my garage and I have been leaving the hood open, I leave the doors ajar and it was not showing any draw down of our Lithium Battery yet. I usually drive once a week though I went 2 weeks without driving recently.... voltage was still at 13.2 which is its resting voltage, so all was fine. Keep in mind this is WITH leaving the doors open and frunk open.... I did leave the key in the ignition once over night and it was still charged and sitting at resting voltage.. Also, I NEVER put the battery on a Charger.... My testing is to check REAL USE data in a testing environment that is beyond what a normal owner would see. This way if I tell you guys something... it is from data from a worst case scenario of use.
So for my conclusions, and this is still only early-on, is that I don't see any problem leaving the standard setting for Lead/Acid battery when using our Lithium Battery.
What battery models do you recommend for the 991.2? And what are the associated weights?
What battery models do you recommend for the 991.2? And what are the associated weights?
In general it will depend on your main intended use.. .but I will go into what I suggest and why below.... Also I have put in a video link of the RS-30 and some pictures of our drop-in fit mounting plate we are developing for it. Don't want to hi-jack the original posters intent... but I answer your questions on this post, and give a broader overall view of lithium battery capacities and what might be best for what use.
1) In general for any 991.1 or 991.2 I would recommend the Antigravity Batteries RS-30 Battery for most ALL uses and environments. The reason being this battery has a solid Amp Hour Capacity that allows for up to 2 months, if not more, of the vehicle being left in storage and not needing to be on a kept on a maintainer/charger and still start it when you come back. In any 2014 or later Porsche the Parasitic draw is low enough for this battery to hold a charge over 2 months. Additionally this battery weighs only 11.5 pounds so it gives you 35 lbs of IMMEDIATE weight loss just upon the battery change from the typical 70Ah Banner battery that is in the 991 Cars ( and most other models). And last it has all the built in protections and correct circuity required on a Lithium Battery so you cannot OVER-DISCHARGE or damage the battery like you can with Lead/Acid or other Lithium Batteries without these protections. Then it has the fail-safe of the RE-START feature... so in the event you over-discharge the battery you can re-start the car because it saves enough reserve capacity when it puts itself to sleep. So when you look at the overall picture of this battery it hits on all key areas needed for Street use OR Race use. Also, in about a 4-6 weeks our DROP-IN Mounting kit will be available... its a plate that attaches to the bottom of our RS-30 and uses the stock mounting cleat that Porsche uses to hold the batteries in place... so no modifications to the battery are needed for the installation, Just put it in and your done. I'll be making a video of the installation when I get the kits in stock... Below you can see some CAD Renders of our Mount.
2- If you more of a weight lose fanatic or track/race more you can also get away with our ATX-30-RS. It will work for Street too, but would require that you are aware this is a lower capacity battery and should monitor it more or maintain it if you don't drive at least every 2 weeks. It's 6.5 pounds . This is a smaller battery than the RS-30 both physically and in Capacity. It has 18Ah compared to the RS-30's 30 Amp Hours. But it also has the full Battery Management system and RE-START feature that our RS-30 does. This battery has been testing in a 2014 Cayman and 3 Mustang GT350Rs and is used in our company truck (which sometimes sit up to 2 months (Toyota Tacoma 4.0 Liter V6) and is holding over a MONTH of sitting in these Cars and maintaining a 13v state of charge easily... So it is holding a full charge in these vehicles over a month of not driving and that is a good bench mark for this smaller battery. So this battery can be used for Street use.... BUT I would suggest a voltage check every two weeks to a month if you are not driving much. But keep in in mind if you are daily driving or driving once ever few weeks you would be fine since the battery is continually being charged. This battery would also not be as good in very cold weather 30 degrees as the RS30 because it is just a smaller battery inside without as much overhead and capacity as a larger version. So it's more of a fair weather battery.
3- For the full on Race use we have a 3 lbs Battery Antigravity AG-1601 that would still rip start upto a 700 Horsepower motor EASILY... but the capacity is 10Amp Hours..... this is perfectly fine for a Race Vehicle ( and responsible daily drivers)... BUT they do have to make sure they are not leaving the fans or other accessories running when the car is OFF because the parasitic draws can draw down a 10 Amp Hour Battery pretty fast. But a Race Car does not need larger Capacity since they usually use the battery only for the Start of the Vehicle, and they are on a Closed Course Circuit so they don't have to worry as much about leaving the lights on at a Cafe or at a Movie and coming back to a dead battery. But I will also say we used this battery for 2 years in the Toyota Tacoma I mentioned above without issue... but we also know not to leave lights on and crank the stereo when the car isn't running. But it worked fine.
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Interesting product..how will the RS-30 perform in winter type climes with say -30 degree conditions. ?
They can handle about 20 degree F so when you say -30 F that is not an option for any of the Lithium Batteries on the market. But I can tell you later in the year to beginning of next year we will have a new Lithium chemistry that is going to be crazy good in cold weather performance... and have a life cycle that is 4-5 times more than the current Lithium Batteries, and the current Lithium Batteries already have over twice the lifecycle of Lead/Acid...so that is saying a lot. And at that time I will say that battery is good for use in any weather at all. We are already testing the cells now.
Also, I actually have used the RS30 in our Toyota Tacoma in the 20s F quite a few times this year when Snowboarding in Big Bear and Mammoth... and it did handle it fine. But while I have done testing in the colder environments in the 20s F for a few weekends of time and feel confident with it... I didn't foresee that specific use for the battery and don't recommend it for anything below the 20F consistent use. Actually at that point you might not even benefit from the lightweight advantage of the lithium since the roads are frozen...
Any chance of putting together an RS-30 group buy for the turbo c/w hardware ?
We are talking about how to approach this....we are thinking of a Rennlist wide discount that is always on, or group buys. I prefer Rennlist wide discount for members that is always on because we would like to try to service all the Porsche people who are members here. But maybe give each group for each car a Discount code for the website purchase. For example Renn991, Renn997 or somethign like that... then everyone gets a code for certain areas of the forum... that will also allow us to know who is intested and we can make customer mounting solutions for them if they have a slightly different battery used in another vehicle. But for now our kit will work with any of the 70Ah Batteries since its the exact bottom plate.
I have not put up our "Official" thread stating who we are, or what we do, or discount codes for purchasing because the complete kit is not quite ready yet. I want to come out with a Thread about Lithium, and our company Antigravity and have it be a thread where almost everything is answered about Lithiums and it use as a replacement starter battery and charging ect.. But I want the finished battery mount in hand first and used in our videos and show how easy it is to install. I have a polycarbonite plastic 3d printed model in our GT3 RS with the RS-30 and the hardest part of the battery change out was lifting that 45lb lead battery out of its battery tray and out of the car. I'm so looking forward to getting this done.
The ATX-30 in my car, resting in the garage as Scott has mentioned, has now lasted for 4 full weeks with the voltage only dropping from 13.30 to 13.13 volts. The car has not been driven and no charge was applied to the battery at any time during this test period. The voltage was measured with a regular volt meter and not the one in the car. The car doors were opened each week for a moment to let the car electrics cycle as if you needed to get something out of it in normal use. Last weekend I even had the door open with the lights on for about ten minutes while I fixed a loose passenger kick panel. After returning home this evening from a weekend away and doing the final measurement, the car started instantly. No extra turns or any difference from like it normally would start. As Scott has said, Porsche has apparently figured out the parasitic draw issue. After the last month of my own testing it appears it is no longer an issue at all, at least for Porsche cars 2014 and newer. Hope this helps anyone still contemplating the hardiness of an Antigravity Lithium Battery.
Beyond this long rest in the garage, the car has over a thousand miles on it including 5 track days without a single hitch. Very happy with the product and especially the 42 pound weight loss for my car.
Here is how I mounted it in the car. I simple strap from Amazon, remove the battery bottom plate, loop the strap underneath the plate, add a piece of custom cut kitchen drawer liner underneath the battery, and retighten the bolts with the strap buckle in the right place. Then install the battery and and tighten the strap. You may want to take a few tries adjusting the position of the strap buckle to get it the exact right place, so don't tighten the bolts down all the way until you have that figured out. This is a very simple option for mounting either battery until Scott has the custom mounting plate made for the RS-30. Again 5 track days and nothing has come loose or moved around.
Didn't the GT3RS come standard with a Porsche Lithium battery?
It definitely wasn't in the 2016 RS I bought just a last month, and it wasn't on the option list for the car though I don't even know if you select that as an option. When I asked my sales person about the Porsche Lithium Battery just to learn about it he said it's something you have to order for any of the cars.... but again I don't know if that meant you order it as an option of the build or if its just a Porsche aftermarket product. Also I've seen two other RSs and assisted one at a Global Time attack race and it had a Banner lead/acid just like mine.
It definitely wasn't in the 2016 RS I bought just a last month, and it wasn't on the option list for the car though I don't even know if you select that as an option. When I asked my sales person about the Porsche Lithium Battery just to learn about it he said it's something you have to order for any of the cars.... but again I don't know if that meant you order it as an option of the build or if its just a Porsche aftermarket product. Also I've seen two other RSs and assisted one at a Global Time attack race and it had a Banner lead/acid just like mine.
It's a strange situation with Li batteries and Porsche - the .2 RS announcement or configurator do not have Li batteries mentioned anywhere. But the 2019 Cayenne press announcement mentioned Li battery as standard. Puzzling... I tried to check what battery a 2019 Cayenne at autoshow had, but they did not let me.
can you tell me what part numbers I’ll need and if you can give me a forum discount for the 6.5 18ah battery option(ATX-30-RS) and the supporting hardware I’ll need, including remote switch for RE-START option? I’d like to buy this weekend. This is for a 2017 C4S.
03-30-2018, 08:20 PM
