Clark-ApexPerformance

Allowing this guy to continue is detracting from the credibility of this site.

Seth Thomas

It is bull****. Anybody that believes a pad can "heal" a rotor is drinking some serious KoolAid. A sintered pad is more abrasive on the rotor and doesn't clean it. It sands the rotor to a smooth looking finish much like sand paper smooths wood, aka takes material away from the rotor.

I don't like to bash a sponsoring company on this forum but this post about a pad healing rotors is stupid and the OP should not be allowed to post erroneous information like this on the forum no matter how much they are paying as a sponsor. This can get someone hurt if they are not careful. This sintered pad takes more material away from a ceramic rotor than the stock pads do. If you run this type pad when the rotors are close to the end of their life it will eventually cause a rotor failure. To put this info on a forum to market it as a fix to the life of rotors is dangerous. There are some people who will believe it, buy the product based on this type post, and they end up paying more in repairs when the rotor explodes.

RacingBrake

Is the above statement based on your judgement, knowledge, or experience.

Please elaborate and share with us.

robmypro

This type of "promotion" does not work here. You are "talking at" the group, and not "engaging" them. If you want any chance of success here you need to engage in a "conversation."

Catapulting the marketing propaganda isn't going to fly. This group wants facts, and they are going to spot BS pretty fast. I don't mean to come off like a jerk, but your approach stands out in a bad way imo.

RacingBrake

That's a perception from someone who is selling competition products which is understandable, but I am not sure how many rennlist members look at the way you were. As if they follow my posts they would realize we are a brake company offers more than just "free shipping".

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...991-gt3-2.html

Spyerx

Clarke and apex have been selling quality products with good advice on here for nearly 10 years. And excellent service too.

Your post, is candidly not factually accurate. I showed your claims to an engineer with one of the larger brake manufacturers. Got this simple response "that post is a joke"

Others may want to further validate these claims that brake pads will heal a ccm rotor.

Fusionofideas

I saw your response. I am the driver and owner of the car. I am not going to roll into a Porsche thread and talk ish however here are the facts and you can come to your own conclusions.

Primary Vehicle components
1.2015 Z28 Camaro stock suspension and motor 3715 lbs with driver 465 rwhp
2. APR GTC500 wing
3. Full NASA spec cage
4. OEM Carbon Ceramic Rotors with 45 hours of track time
5. Classed as ST2 NASA

Driver
1. 10 years of track experience with NASA
2. 1 year with the Z28, preciously Mitsubishi Evo X (3200lbs/

Track:
Buttonwillow 13 CW
Clear day dry conditions
Lap video taken during Time Trial session TT2 class
I was Dual competing in TT2/ST2 this event

Only changes to car since previous best time:
Pirelli Pzero scrubs from Ferrari challenge (not new slicks)
Racing Brake Forged Calipers
Racing Brake Sintered Pads

I have run the sintered pads for three weekends and they have in fact "cured" the fractures caused from
The OEM brembo pads from the previous season.

I had a full season/year with the car since returning to track so if you see the post you'll see that I attribute gained time to that from making switch from AWD EvoX to RWD Z28. Previous time of 2:04 was on Toyo R888 on dry track condition which was also attributed and finally the Racing Brake set up with the forged calipers and Sintered pads which attributed time as outlined from increased braking ability and consistency.

Now if the only thing changed was the brakes I could understand your claim that this is BS but it appears that you didn't review the full post and attribution of time to several components. So I will leave this here and you can come to your own conclusion and hopefully this time you will without jumping to claims of calling BS.

If your interested in seeing more detail on the build and car you can go here. (Writer of article didn't understand NASA rules so his details are off on classing if anyone here runs with NASA, you'll see the errors)
http://www.superchevy.com/features/1...-on-the-track/

m3irish

Maybe if you can show us some before and after that would help. I see torn up rotors and no shiny healed after pics.

RacingBrake

Can you disclose the engineer's name and the brake company he works for to qualify his comment.

This sintered pad for CCM rotors was a more than two years development project including mfg process improvement and track tests on Corvette ZR1, Z28 and GTR.

In Quest of Ultimate Brake Pad for GT-R..With CCM Rotors
http://www.gtrheritage.com/topic/446...est#entry80768

It's a proven product and we stand behind everything we present and claimed in this forum.

When a new product is introduced to the market most consumers could be suspicious, which is understandable and we are happy to answer any questions you might have to the best of our knowledge.

However we can't agree to someone without a proper understanding or knowledge of this application (Sintered pads to CCM rotors) forcefully denounce this new product, and painted a negative image over our company.

No one would disagree that the main reason of keeping people away from using CCM brake is its ridiculously high replacement cost due to lack of strong and durable brake pads and the venerability of CCM rotors which a CCM brake system generates (much higher than iron brake due to its lower density)

I am sure quite a few other members are reading this post with interest, so for some who rejected this product we respect his decision, but would rather to keep the thread discussion w/o any bias.

We welcome any constructive suggestion and feedback, but not a groundless criticism.

RacingBrake

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...t=racing+brake



Before using sintered pads:


After:


It's a kind of infusion process with pad material transfers (even layers) to CCM disc surface, which can take place only from a sintered (100% metallic) brake pad under higher braking temperature on CCM rotors.

You can see the rotor surface color changes from dull gray (original CCM) to shinny gold color (copper has a melting temperature of 1083°C (1981°F) lower than other powder)

Another proven successful application in GTR forum.
http://www.gtrheritage.com/topic/671...cmcarbon-pads/

RealityGT

^While I am trying to avoid posting in the thread.. Those pictures you posted have clearly been altered to show a skewed image and to intentionally mislead...
That is not something I would consider "reputable"...

Fusionofideas

I saw your response. I am the driver and owner of the car. I am not going to roll into a Porsche thread and talk ish however here are the facts and you can come to your own conclusions.

Primary Vehicle components
1.2015 Z28 Camaro stock suspension and motor 3715 lbs with driver 465 rwhp
2. APR GTC500 wing
3. Full NASA spec cage
4. OEM Carbon Ceramic Rotors with 45 hours of track time
5. Classed as ST2 NASA

Driver
1. 10 years of track experience with NASA
2. 1 year with the Z28, preciously Mitsubishi Evo X (3200lbs/

Track:
Buttonwillow 13 CW
Clear day dry conditions
Lap video taken during Time Trial session TT2 class
I was Dual competing in TT2/ST2 this event

Only changes to car since previous best time:
Pirelli Pzero scrubs from Ferrari challenge (not new slicks)
Racing Brake Forged Calipers
Racing Brake Sintered Pads

I have run the sintered pads for three weekends and they have in fact "cured" the fractures caused from
The OEM brembo pads from the previous season.

I had a full season/year with the car since returning to track so if you see the post you'll see that I attribute gained time to that from making switch from AWD EvoX to RWD Z28. Previous time of 2:04 was on Toyo R888 on dry track condition which was also attributed and finally the Racing Brake set up with the forged calipers and Sintered pads which attributed time as outlined from increased braking ability and consistency.

Now if the only thing changed was the brakes I could understand your claim that this is BS but it appears that you didn't review the full post and attribution of time to several components. So I will leave this here and you can come to your own conclusion and hopefully this time you will without jumping to claims of calling BS.

If your interested in seeing more detail on the build and car you can go here. (Writer of article didn't understand NASA rules so his details are off on classing if anyone here runs with NASA, you'll see the errors)
http://www.superchevy.com/features/1...-on-the-track/

Seth Thomas

Knowledge and experience.

I have been racing professionally since 2004 and I have worked with several different brake manufacturers on developing pads and rotors for the cars I have been racing. To name a few Hawk, Performance Friction, Cobalt, Stoptech, etc.

A sintered pad is highly abrasive on a metal rotor surface area. The most common use of a sintered pad is on motorcycles due to them using a stainless steel rotor. The coefficient of friction on stainless steel is a lot less than cast iron and the sintered pad gives a lot of bite into the rotor material. This gives a feeling of lots of bite and braking force when using these materials together. The down side is the big bite also produces a higher rate of rotor wear.

So here you are advertising a high wear brake pad with a high initial bite as a way to heal a carbon rotor. Yes there are pad materials deposited onto the rotor but there is also going to be a high rate of wear on the rotor itself due to the highly abrasive characteristics of the pad. This is the reason you are seeing the rotor surface be smoothed down in the images. There is rotor material that is being taken away in these photos. There is not a brake pad out there that does not place wear on a rotor. And the material that is being deposited as you are advertising does not replace the rotor wear at the same rate. If this is so then you need to produce to us the evidence that the rotor is staying the same thickness and size.


Here's the deal. If you really want to convince us that you have a pad that heals a CCM rotor and makes it last longer then produce evidence to use that the pad does this. Showing us pictures of smooth rotor surfaces does not mean the rotor is lasting longer. These images do not show us the rotor is "healed". Give us measurements that show the rotor is actually healed. Don't give us videos of some dude in a Camaro going faster on a race track as evidence. Nothing you have given us so far makes for a convincing argument other than the marketing words you are using to sell a product.

porscharu

So you have a "100% metallic" (inorganic compound) healing a carbon reinforced SIC ceramic surface?

hughp3

Good lord. PCCB require a very specific tool to even determine wear. $6k Carboteq device
https://www.proceq.com/product/carbo...c-brake-discs/

This is THE ONLY WAY that PCCB can be wear measured. Your pads will simple ruin the rotors.

Also to refurbish here is the process..

http://www.rebrake.de/prozess/?lang=en