RSR 2nd in GTLM and 1st in GTD at 24h Daytona
01-30-2017, 06:57 PM
#31
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
And if it can maintain 310 ft-lbs at 11,500 rpm then it's making 679 hp.
Where do you think a reasonable redline is for this car? And how far down the torque curve (from 339 ft-lbs) will it have fallen at that rpm? Do you think you can make a combo that yields 700hp? I really don't know the answer, but seems hard to believe...
If this motor was revving to 11k rpm for 24 hours, that certainly would be good news for a road version with 8,500 rpm redline. My guess is the racer was not spinning much more than 9k, but would love to be shown otherwise (there probably is a way to know just by analyzing the exhaust note)...
01-30-2017, 07:51 PM
#34
Drifting
Well, if it can maintain 325 ft-lbs of its max 339 ft-lbs at 11,000 rpm then it's making 619hp.
And if it can maintain 310 ft-lbs at 11,500 rpm then it's making 679 hp.
Where do you think a reasonable redline is for this car? And how far down the torque curve (from 339 ft-lbs) will it have fallen at that rpm? Do you think you can make a combo that yields 700hp? I really don't know the answer, but seems hard to believe...
If this motor was revving to 11k rpm for 24 hours, that certainly would be good news for a road version with 8,500 rpm redline. My guess is the racer was not spinning much more than 9k, but would love to be shown otherwise (there probably is a way to know just by analyzing the exhaust note)...
And if it can maintain 310 ft-lbs at 11,500 rpm then it's making 679 hp.
Where do you think a reasonable redline is for this car? And how far down the torque curve (from 339 ft-lbs) will it have fallen at that rpm? Do you think you can make a combo that yields 700hp? I really don't know the answer, but seems hard to believe...
If this motor was revving to 11k rpm for 24 hours, that certainly would be good news for a road version with 8,500 rpm redline. My guess is the racer was not spinning much more than 9k, but would love to be shown otherwise (there probably is a way to know just by analyzing the exhaust note)...
I can only speculate as to the redline of the new engine, but I know the old one, from 2 different sources who don't know each other - one WEC and one IMSA.
Ultimately it doesn't really matter because (1) it races with a restrictor and (2) they won't sell you one anyway.
01-30-2017, 08:02 PM
#35
Interesting conversation. But I think it's irrelevant to discuss a race vs street engine, when the former is only supposed to last 100 hours at best. Yes, making it to 24 hours straight is a great achivement, but if a road car can't have that valvetrain design, how can we assume the street version will be bulletproof? I'm sure Porsche thought exactly the same thing about the current MA175 engine, and see how wrong that was. What I'd like to see is a production engine run like that. And THEN I'd be impressed and with optimism. Porsche obviously need more testing of the production engine (or production engine technology), not the race one.
01-30-2017, 08:04 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
The exhaust note on overrun is pretty sweet and indicative of a high revving motor. I do agree that 700 hp is pretty far out there for a 4.0 L engine. I also agree that it is all pretty much irrelevant as none of us can get one , ebut important in the sense that it shares the basic architecture with the MA 175/176 motors in our cars. Now that is important and it is indicative that Porsche believes (correctly so) that the motor is good enough to race. Goodbye Mezger. 
01-30-2017, 09:55 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
The last hour of the LM race was nerve wracking for sure- I think it's showing exactly how balanced all these cars are and that it comes down to a decisive move, mistake, or risk with the Drivers. The ford GT and the Porsche both snuck underneath the Ferrari into Turn 1 because the Ferrari lost just enough grip to slide wide. One mistake cost them two positions.
The rain suited the porsche Best- if the rain would have stayed Porsche had the rain advantage. The difficult thing at Daytona is making a tire last while you slam into the banking over and over.
The FGT definitely has an aero advantage and when running flat out in the dry the porsche could draft really well but didn't have that top end to really finish the pass. Coming out of the bus stop the GT would pull away initially and then RSR would draft into position through NASCAR T4
The rain suited the porsche Best- if the rain would have stayed Porsche had the rain advantage. The difficult thing at Daytona is making a tire last while you slam into the banking over and over.
The FGT definitely has an aero advantage and when running flat out in the dry the porsche could draft really well but didn't have that top end to really finish the pass. Coming out of the bus stop the GT would pull away initially and then RSR would draft into position through NASCAR T4
Your expert insight validates what I (as just a spectator) was thinking while I was watching the race.
My son Jack (11 yo) and I (big Porsche and BTW big CJ Wilson Racing fans) were hoping the rain continued to give Porsche the advantage.
The change to RSR gives Porsche a better chance this year. Hopefully will see it win allot especially on the more technical race tracks. The Ford had the clear advantage high end and especially pulling away in acceleration coming out of the slower corners. The RSR had the advantage it seemed braking later in the corners and holding the lines.
Compared to last year the Ferrari 488 seems big upgrade on the 458. Blew away the corvette on the high speed portion and kept up with the Fords high end while looking really good in the other aspects.
Looking forward to very exciting season.
What about the GT3R? Still uses the Metzger?
01-30-2017, 10:47 PM
#39
Nordschleife Master
I have to say that I really enjoyed the racing this past weekend. It was very exciting and lead changed hands many times. Reminded me of world superbike which is also very exciting.
My non-expert assessment was that the Porsche is seemed to be able to run with the GT's on the short straights but on the longer straights the RSRs would draft the GT's and again as CJ noted could not pull off the pass at the end. They seemed pretty evenly matched.
The RSRs did seem to have the advantage in the tighter turns and breaking zones.
As CJ noted the RSR also seemed to have the clear advantage in the wet and from what I heard from the early morning hours through the night ran first and second although I had fallen asleep I can't vouch for this .
The GT3Rs also ran great against stiff competition.
I agree that with the Ford GT's and Ferrari aero in GTLM and Lamborghini's and Ferraris aero in GTD at Daytona which is a very high-speed course and seeing how well Porsche did regardless I would expect them to do even better on less high-speed courses such as Watkins Glen and Lime Rock etc.
Remember while one Ford GT finished in front of the RSR, the RSR finished in front of three other Ford GT's
My non-expert assessment was that the Porsche is seemed to be able to run with the GT's on the short straights but on the longer straights the RSRs would draft the GT's and again as CJ noted could not pull off the pass at the end. They seemed pretty evenly matched.
The RSRs did seem to have the advantage in the tighter turns and breaking zones.
As CJ noted the RSR also seemed to have the clear advantage in the wet and from what I heard from the early morning hours through the night ran first and second although I had fallen asleep I can't vouch for this .
The GT3Rs also ran great against stiff competition.
I agree that with the Ford GT's and Ferrari aero in GTLM and Lamborghini's and Ferraris aero in GTD at Daytona which is a very high-speed course and seeing how well Porsche did regardless I would expect them to do even better on less high-speed courses such as Watkins Glen and Lime Rock etc.
Remember while one Ford GT finished in front of the RSR, the RSR finished in front of three other Ford GT's
01-30-2017, 10:51 PM
#40
Nordschleife Master
01-31-2017, 04:00 PM
#43
Drifting
I have to say that I really enjoyed the racing this past weekend. It was very exciting and lead changed hands many times. Reminded me of world superbike which is also very exciting.
My non-expert assessment was that the Porsche is seemed to be able to run with the GT's on the short straights but on the longer straights the RSRs would draft the GT's and again as CJ noted could not pull off the pass at the end. They seemed pretty evenly matched.
The RSRs did seem to have the advantage in the tighter turns and breaking zones.
As CJ noted the RSR also seemed to have the clear advantage in the wet and from what I heard from the early morning hours through the night ran first and second although I had fallen asleep I can't vouch for this .
The GT3Rs also ran great against stiff competition.
I agree that with the Ford GT's and Ferrari aero in GTLM and Lamborghini's and Ferraris aero in GTD at Daytona which is a very high-speed course and seeing how well Porsche did regardless I would expect them to do even better on less high-speed courses such as Watkins Glen and Lime Rock etc.
Remember while one Ford GT finished in front of the RSR, the RSR finished in front of three other Ford GT's
My non-expert assessment was that the Porsche is seemed to be able to run with the GT's on the short straights but on the longer straights the RSRs would draft the GT's and again as CJ noted could not pull off the pass at the end. They seemed pretty evenly matched.
The RSRs did seem to have the advantage in the tighter turns and breaking zones.
As CJ noted the RSR also seemed to have the clear advantage in the wet and from what I heard from the early morning hours through the night ran first and second although I had fallen asleep I can't vouch for this .
The GT3Rs also ran great against stiff competition.
I agree that with the Ford GT's and Ferrari aero in GTLM and Lamborghini's and Ferraris aero in GTD at Daytona which is a very high-speed course and seeing how well Porsche did regardless I would expect them to do even better on less high-speed courses such as Watkins Glen and Lime Rock etc.
Remember while one Ford GT finished in front of the RSR, the RSR finished in front of three other Ford GT's
BOP struck me as fair, although the race may have looked different if there had been no rain
Ford, Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette all right together and swapping the lead all night; BMW was off the pace, but I don't feel bad for them since they don't actually build a GTE/GTLM spec car - just a hopped up GT3
