The 960 / FeFi delayed because of VW diesel scandal?
#16
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At this point you'd have to seriously question if there will even be a 918 replacement in 10 years, if at all. Or to what measure they'll have to make cutbacks due to the diesel mess. Will the next 911 (992?) be less of a car than it would have been, for instance? Time will tell I suppose...
#17
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#18
#19
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I hope Porsche stays true to heritage and builds a new gt2/RS with 4wheel drive and the engine moved forward. Kind of like devoliping the new 991R "race car" into a street car.
There are plenty of mid engine cars to choose from.
There are plenty of mid engine cars to choose from.
#20
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In this day and age new model development and cost to market are becoming so high that it's likely we won't get anything "special" again or anytime in next 12-15 years. I could care less if they share a chassis/platform across Audi/lambo/Porsche to save money but in my opinion they must keep a Porsche developed engine in the Porsche version of car to keep it somewhat unique and from all accounts the engine was going to be special in the 960 but the chassis was also unique. My 2 cents is it likely to be scrapped all together as the numbers from VW crisis are growing exponentially each week and have far exceeded original high estimates. My businesses are heavily involved in car industry and the cost of dieselgate is nearing castrophic levels .....so high that we are likely to see major changes to the companies under its umbrella which could include shedding some of the brands all together. Porsche is unfortunate victim being vacuumed down into the VW toilet, it would be better served to be clipped free of VW.
#21
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Agree with all the above. So, can we speculate that this will suck billions from the VW side of the business, billions from all companies under the VW umbrella, or billions from future Porsche R&D? Not sure I worded that right, but there ya go...
#22
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OTOH, you feed that successful breeds and starve the less successful. Otherwise, the entire species is at risk. Porsche is a money machine. To compromise it would be malpractice.
#25
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#26
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Big question now would be: Will the 911 '992' be more of a mid-engine design (the GT3,2 at least), thus negating the "need" for a 960? A very good argument could be made it already is in it's current rear-engine form.
#27
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No need for a mid engine in the 911 as they can move it for Motorsports as we have seen. So this gives us two factors to work with:
A) Engine is now midship in the RSR
B) a lot of people would have bunched up panties if the 911 road car ever got a "mid engine"
Which now leaves us with a specially developed car known as the "FeFi," that car would not be a 911, and if signed off, would most likely be based on the R8/Huracan platform for cost reasons. I think that would be a shame.
A) Engine is now midship in the RSR
B) a lot of people would have bunched up panties if the 911 road car ever got a "mid engine"
Which now leaves us with a specially developed car known as the "FeFi," that car would not be a 911, and if signed off, would most likely be based on the R8/Huracan platform for cost reasons. I think that would be a shame.
#28
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![](https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/600x401/porsche_913_rendering_40c5d923d0c2027a8cc270a93fca1c22ae916738.jpg)
I want a 918 soooo bad, but I can't have one because my wife would murder me and bury me under the patio, but a 913/960, whatever they call it, that's maybe the one supercar I'd be allowed buy.
Now they just have to make the bloody thing, and price it 10/20k above a 911 Turbo S so I don't have to sell a kidney, price it against the McLaren 570S would be just perfect.
Separately to that I posted a while ago some scuttlebutt from Audi. https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...ng-rumour.html
I was at my dealers a while back standing in front of a 981 Spyder and bemoaning the lack of a mid-engine super car to challenge Ferrari, McLaren, 'Even Corvette are doing one!', you get the idea.
Anyway, the other day I was in picking up a part and my dealer had a rumour to share, not from Zuffenhausen but from Audi, of a new shared chassis being developed for the R8; to be shared with another in the VW group for their mid-engine super car and it's specifically not for the Lamborghini Huracan successor. Which limits the possibilities of who it could be to Bentley, Bugatti and Porsche so I'm liking those odds.
I'd argue that the need for such a car is increasing if Porsche want to stay relevant to certain markets, especially given Maclaren's meteoric rise in recent years. Anyway, make of this what you will, maybe some of you who own Porsche hyper-cars might be able to pry more info our of your connections to find out how much truth there is to the rumour.
Anyway, the other day I was in picking up a part and my dealer had a rumour to share, not from Zuffenhausen but from Audi, of a new shared chassis being developed for the R8; to be shared with another in the VW group for their mid-engine super car and it's specifically not for the Lamborghini Huracan successor. Which limits the possibilities of who it could be to Bentley, Bugatti and Porsche so I'm liking those odds.
I'd argue that the need for such a car is increasing if Porsche want to stay relevant to certain markets, especially given Maclaren's meteoric rise in recent years. Anyway, make of this what you will, maybe some of you who own Porsche hyper-cars might be able to pry more info our of your connections to find out how much truth there is to the rumour.
#29
Drifting
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https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...be-plug-hybrid
The Lamborghini Huracán’s successor, due in 2022, will use a radical hybrid powertrain, featuring “next-generation” battery technology to minimise weight and give it the ability to run in electric-only mode.
The Italian supercar maker, which is well known for its reluctance to move away from naturally aspirated engines, has already confirmed a hybrid powertrain will be launched in its new SUV, the Urus.
The latter will be revealed in December, but no technical details or performance figures have been released yet.
The next Aventador, due before the second-generation Huracán, will retain its naturally aspirated V12 engine, so the Huracán’s successor will be the first Lamborghini sports car to be an advanced plug-in hybrid. Talking to Autocar, Lamborghini boss Stefano Domenicali said: “The [next] Huracán – that car will need hybridisation. Hybridisation is the answer, not [full] electric.”
Referring to its current engines, Domenicali said: “There is still a lot of potential for the V12. The right approach for us is to have the V10 and V12 to suit our customers and then be ready to switch [to a hybrid] at the right moment.”
Commercial boss Federico Foschini told Autocar earlier this year that there is currently little demand for hybridisation from its customers. “When they come to Lamborghini, they are asking for the power and performance of our naturally aspirated engines,” he said. “That’s why we have already decided that the next-generation V12 will stay naturally aspirated and it is one reason why the [Aventador] remains unique.”
Although these engines remain in the mid-term plan, Lamborghini is already heavily investing in the research and development of future powertrain technology for 2022 and beyond.
Last year, it announced a partnership with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) on a project that “intends to write an important page in the future of super-sports cars for the third millennium”. That project is likely to focus on lightweight composite materials, as well as alternative energy and battery storage techniques.
Research and development boss Maurizio Reggiani told Autocar last month that the key issues currently preventing the brand from integrating hybrid technology were focused around driving range, but he hoped to have a solution for a super-sports car within “four to five years”.
He said: “The issue today is the storage of energy. If I go to a track, I need to run all the laps that I want. But today, the problem is that if you go, you are only able to run one and a half laps [flat out].”
Reggiani said plug-in electric technology is still not effective enough for use in a supercar that can be driven at pace for long periods of time.“Imagine if you went to the Nordschleife with a hybrid. It will be faster on the 0-100km/h time [than non-hybrid cars] but it will not be faster over a lap – or at least won’t be able to do more laps,” he said.
Porsche, a Volkswagen Group stablemate of Lamborghini, has been investigating the use of lighter solid-state batteries for its future performance cars and Reggiani said this is something Lamborghini is considering. However, he believes the very different character of Lamborghini supercars means integrating tech from a sister brand won’t be as simple as it has been with the Urus.
“It’s easier in our first plug-in hybrid, the Urus, because the ambition of the car in terms of packaging and weight is not so difficult,” he said. “But this is one mission. It’s not the Lamborghini super-sports car mission.”
Reggiani said Lamborghini is working with multiple industry experts, including MIT, to investigate what type of battery system can offer the best answer to the hybrid challenge.
“We have different partnerships with the most important researchers in the world because we need to scout [for future ideas],” he said. “I think the new frontier of the super-sports car will move more and more to the hybridisation, although there are still some questions relating to the weight and the packaging of the batteries.”
The Italian supercar maker, which is well known for its reluctance to move away from naturally aspirated engines, has already confirmed a hybrid powertrain will be launched in its new SUV, the Urus.
The latter will be revealed in December, but no technical details or performance figures have been released yet.
The next Aventador, due before the second-generation Huracán, will retain its naturally aspirated V12 engine, so the Huracán’s successor will be the first Lamborghini sports car to be an advanced plug-in hybrid. Talking to Autocar, Lamborghini boss Stefano Domenicali said: “The [next] Huracán – that car will need hybridisation. Hybridisation is the answer, not [full] electric.”
Referring to its current engines, Domenicali said: “There is still a lot of potential for the V12. The right approach for us is to have the V10 and V12 to suit our customers and then be ready to switch [to a hybrid] at the right moment.”
Commercial boss Federico Foschini told Autocar earlier this year that there is currently little demand for hybridisation from its customers. “When they come to Lamborghini, they are asking for the power and performance of our naturally aspirated engines,” he said. “That’s why we have already decided that the next-generation V12 will stay naturally aspirated and it is one reason why the [Aventador] remains unique.”
Although these engines remain in the mid-term plan, Lamborghini is already heavily investing in the research and development of future powertrain technology for 2022 and beyond.
Last year, it announced a partnership with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) on a project that “intends to write an important page in the future of super-sports cars for the third millennium”. That project is likely to focus on lightweight composite materials, as well as alternative energy and battery storage techniques.
Research and development boss Maurizio Reggiani told Autocar last month that the key issues currently preventing the brand from integrating hybrid technology were focused around driving range, but he hoped to have a solution for a super-sports car within “four to five years”.
He said: “The issue today is the storage of energy. If I go to a track, I need to run all the laps that I want. But today, the problem is that if you go, you are only able to run one and a half laps [flat out].”
Reggiani said plug-in electric technology is still not effective enough for use in a supercar that can be driven at pace for long periods of time.“Imagine if you went to the Nordschleife with a hybrid. It will be faster on the 0-100km/h time [than non-hybrid cars] but it will not be faster over a lap – or at least won’t be able to do more laps,” he said.
Porsche, a Volkswagen Group stablemate of Lamborghini, has been investigating the use of lighter solid-state batteries for its future performance cars and Reggiani said this is something Lamborghini is considering. However, he believes the very different character of Lamborghini supercars means integrating tech from a sister brand won’t be as simple as it has been with the Urus.
“It’s easier in our first plug-in hybrid, the Urus, because the ambition of the car in terms of packaging and weight is not so difficult,” he said. “But this is one mission. It’s not the Lamborghini super-sports car mission.”
Reggiani said Lamborghini is working with multiple industry experts, including MIT, to investigate what type of battery system can offer the best answer to the hybrid challenge.
“We have different partnerships with the most important researchers in the world because we need to scout [for future ideas],” he said. “I think the new frontier of the super-sports car will move more and more to the hybridisation, although there are still some questions relating to the weight and the packaging of the batteries.”