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The problem was crazy vibrations that were felt throughout the car (steering wheel, brake pedal, seat ...). The discs were new, everything was cleaned, I used new bolts all around, torqued to spec, etc. Same way I do all the things, including now installing back the PCCBs with the same RSC-1 pads and everything is working fine, so there's nothing wrong with the car's suspension, hubs, etc. It just pisses me off that such a high-end product has such crappy service. I realize I'm probably one of the very few customers that have had this issue, but that's just one more reason to treat the issue seriously so it doesn't happen again. But they just said "most likely uneven pad deposits because of high DTV" and that's it.
The problem was crazy vibrations that were felt throughout the car (steering wheel, brake pedal, seat ...). The discs were new, everything was cleaned, I used new bolts all around, torqued to spec, etc. Same way I do all the things, including now installing back the PCCBs with the same RSC-1 pads and everything is working fine, so there's nothing wrong with the car's suspension, hubs, etc. It just pisses me off that such a high-end product has such crappy service. I realize I'm probably one of the very few customers that have had this issue, but that's just one more reason to treat the issue seriously so it doesn't happen again. But they just said "most likely uneven pad deposits because of high DTV" and that's it.
Very strange, i had amazing customer service, they didnt offer to replace? They have a solid guarantee and honestly, i had amazing service... even grabbed dinner with their UK rep when he was visiting. The rotors and pads have been amazing. Where did u purchase them from?
3 months later and still struggling to resolve this issue. The latest update is - I've sent all 4 discs back to ST in the UK, they've done some tests and determined that the DTV is a bit high due to uneven pad deposit. They of course are not blaming me, but are saying that the issue obviously had to develop after the discs were sold to me and that they are not to blame. I've continuously emphasized that I have followed the bedding in procedure to the letter. The vibrations started during the bedding in procedure (when I increased the braking pressure) so I'm not sure how pad material would have been able to get unevenly deposited to discs if the discs had like 3 kilometres behind them. Anyway, they said that they have machined the discs as a gesture of good will, but to be honest, I'm super skeptical about this. I thought you can't just "machine" carbon ceramic discs. I've also been given absolutely no tech data about what was done, what the numbers were, how much of the material was skimmed, how this affects performance, how will it affect the # of refurbishments they can perform in the future ... nothing. Seriously disappointed with the service.
Now I'm still arranging how I'll get back the discs and will update you on the results once I install them.
Little more info here. U purchased directly from ST? The ST disc are continuous fiber vs PCCB which basically is tons of little pieces held together and are much more brittle and prone to rock chips. Sad u had such a problem and surprised they didnt just replace. If multiple discs have the same problem doesnt that suggest something else? It would be interesting to try them on another car. U had mentioned u installed the original PCCBs? I assume the pads are also the old pads now? Is it possible the pads are problematic?
You know how they say - you see how good the customer service is when you have an issue. They were super nice and responsive before the purchase but after I told them about the issues, the immediate response was that it's highly unlikely their discs were faulty and that it's surely wrong bed-in procedure, issues with the car, etc. I did 2 more bedding-in procedures (after taking the discs off, cleaning the hubs, making sure everything is immaculate, etc) and same thing. Then I had enough of the issues and put back my old PCCBs with the same pads (to be clear - I just left the pads in the callipers, so the discs were the only variable) and the problem disappeared.
They offered I drive up to RUF in Germany and they take a look at the car (before I put PCCBs on) because they were extremely confident that it's surely something wrong with the car's suspension, hubs, bearings, etc. Everything but their discs.
I was also surprised that they did not straight out replace the discs and said they measured DTV and machined them down. I haven't gotten any tech data at all. What was the DTV, how much material was machined down, etc.
Like I said, every company can have great service until you have a problem. That's where a difference between bad, good and great companies emerges.
Like I said, every company can have great service until you have a problem. That's where a difference between bad, good and great companies emerges.
Completely agree, i would expect more. Still very strange and you are the first ive heard to have issues. U purchased new from them? I imagine you are absolutely frustrated.
This is the problem with ST, lack of communication when customers ask questions after the sale has been completed.
The other problem in US is that there is only one distributor for ST rotor service.
This is the problem with ST, lack of communication when customers ask questions after the sale has been completed.
The other problem in US is that there is only one distributor for ST rotor service.
Reached out to my contacts a few minutes ago and response within 10min... so pretty good but i get it. I hope they provide their perspective and address the communication issue, any amazing product can fail with poor service, bad communication, etc.
Yeah, I purchased the rear set directly from them and the fronts from Ninemeister UK (I bought rears first because I thought fronts will be fine for another season but then changed my mind because I thought the vibrations are coming from the front PCCBs ... but later found out that they're from STs ). I installed Pagid RSC-1 all around (they recommend these and have said it's the only set they tested with).
The issue of one stockist is being addressed. Covid pulled the rug from under my plans back in Feb but as the Sales Manager for the US & Apac, be assured things are changing!
Thanks
Tim
Hi Jure
I'm aware of the issues you've been having of late but must admit I'm surprised you mention there being no data shared as it's certainly available. We sell so many of these kits without issue that suggesting we check the car out first was the only possible cause that sprung to mind. May I suggest you go back to Craig on this as it appears both parties are somehow misaligned?
Yes, the data I got was that there is/was an issue with a DTV which is caused by uneven pad deposit and that the team at ST assumes that happened during the bedding in process. I understand what pad deposit is, although I do not understand how that happened because I followed the bedding-in procedure to the letter and I even had my wife sit in the car so she had an app on her phone open and counted how many times we've stopped, etc. But like I said, the vibrations started during the bed-in procedure but I thought it was part of the process. The instructions say "Step 3: Heavier Stops (to fade the pad and outgas)" so I thought "ok, it's normal that I'm getting vibrations now".
Anyway, I asked if I could get the test sheets or whatever the QA/QC team uses to determine if the discs pass or fail and never got any. I'd also love to get the DTV numbers before and after the machining so that I can potentially cross-check those when I get the discs back and before installing them, so that if this mysterious issue happens again, we can put numbers to those claims.
As I've mentioned many times to Craig and Peter (from Ninemeister), I really put a lot of trust into the company and their products but I can't tell you how many hours I've spent investigating what shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. I've replaced many discs on my track/street cars, bedded them in per manufacturer's instructions and never had any issues. Zero. And I certainly didn't expect to have them on a 10 grand disc set from a reputable company. To make things worse, instead of offering a replacement, I was continuously told that this has not happened before and that there is surely something wrong with my car or that I messed up the bed-in process.
That's what I disliked the most about this service - the distrust of a customer that has a 6 figure car and invested a 5 figure amount into buying the best possible product they could for their car. Along with the discs and pads, I've also purchased a £1100 centerlock repair kit that contains new drive pins that go into the disc hats because the Porsche workshop manual says those need to be replaced on every disc change. I am not cutting corners and when I decide to do things myself, I do them properly.
I did point out that Craig offered me to come up to RUF and let them take a look at the car but before spending time & money on a trip to Germany, I decided to put back PCCBs (just to make sure there actually is nothing wrong with the suspension, hubs or bearings) and everything was fine. The ST team discovering a high DTV proves my point that I did have vibrations and that the car was fine all along.
The only thing that bothers me now is that we're still in a limbo about who has to bear the shipping costs (I have zero proof that the discs didn't have a manufacturing or material defects = not MY fault) and that I'm left in the dark about how this machining process will affect performance, refurbishing processes in the future, etc. And if they simply machined down the discs so they won't have any high spots now, what if I follow the bed-in procedure on their site and get the vibrations again (due to material defects for example)?
Please don't feel that if something happens during bedding that we then automatically say it's the owners fault. That's not the case as there's a subtle difference between something unexpected happening - which most certainly applies here - and there being someone to blame. I can only apologise if you've been left with that impression as it was certainly not intended. Simply put, we never have problems with these kits so it came as a surprise to us all and I trust that on their return you'll enjoy them as much as every other customer. It would be wrong of me to comment further as I simply don't know enough about it to do so, which I'm sure you understand.
From your description that rotors had vibration when new it sounds like the rotor could well be out of balance. Although the disc are normally dynamically balanced & corrected (shave weight) during mfg process at factory but after assembly is what counts. Brembo had the same issue in their earlier Z06/Z28 carbon rotors shipment.
If a rotor hat is made with weight compensation provision (M4x0.7), the rotor balance is still correctable.
Did all of the rotors have uneven pad deposit? If they all had issue, then something is up. I would expect something was out on the rear, pad, rotor, balance, something was out based on ur experiencing it when u replaced the rears.
10-01-2020, 10:30 AM
). I installed Pagid RSC-1 all around (they recommend these and have said it's the only set they tested with).
