This still assumes Porsche is building either the gas or electric car to its full potential. It's not. A GT3 RS engine has a power to weight ratio of 1.1 hp per lb. A 918's is 2 hp per pound nominally. Meaning the GT3 RS is carrying around ~200 lbs of excess weight behind the rear axle. If Porsche was building the highest performance car it could this would be a crime. However they're not. They are building a car that's as fasts as they want it to be, engineering for a certain experience...

In this light the technology used doesn't matter beyond emissions and cost. Stick a no-limits IC engine in and it'd be similarly fast to a no-limits electric (currently) due to a higher power to weight ratio. But we're not going to get a no-limits version of either, and there is headroom with either technology to make a car faster than they want it to be (again emissions and costs excepted).

So assuming equal performance, which would you rather drive? Electric torque can be perfectly linear, but in many ways this lacks drama. Shifts can be seamless or eliminated altogether, but again... At the end of the day the fastest way around the track is the most drama-free: no understeer, no oversteer, no body lean, seamlessly smooth. You'll "win" your DE. Compare that expereince to the guy in the CGT driving the hell out of the car trying to keep up... I know which car I'd rather be in.

 

Thank you for being on this forum.

 

My experience tracking the 991 GT3 has made me feel that fast is its own kind of fun, and having a car that brakes well, corners well, puts down the power well, etc. contributes to that, as long as the driver is really driving the car, rather than the car constantly fixing driver errors behind the scenes (eg, GT-R). It's a somewhat different kind of fun than a car with more obvious imperfections, rawness, connection, etc., and I certainly recall the immense joy I felt driving an '87 Carrera on street tires at VIR. So I like both, just as I like different flavors of ice cream, and wouldn't necessarily rank one kind of fun above the other at this point.

As discussed many times, driving on the road is a different ball game. The roads, speed limits, runoff areas, speeding tickets, potential for spending time in jail, etc. are basically the same for both slow and fast cars. Driving a fast car in that setting can feel rather stifled, but at least there are usually opportunities to enjoy spurts of acceleration at reasonable speeds in cars that have easily accessed torque like the Tesla.

 

Understanding the point you're making, can we agree the GT3 is not a standard 911 and is supposed to be the homologation of the race car for FIA GT3 racing? Can we also agree that no one will ever want to watch silent electric GT3s race around a track at a FIA sanctioned GT Cup event? Like Pete said, there are CGTs and there are and will be drama free electrics. I know what I want to drive too and, to be frank, I find this thread more off kilter than your initial GT3 impressions post. Seriously, and again, who wants to drive a silent, no drama, emotionless GT3 regardless of how fast it can be? That's the event you want for your daily commuter, not a sports car.

Dan (thinks there is room for electric outside of GT but for the same reason the GT3 should not be turbo, it should not be electric)

 

Do yourself a favor and never watch a Formula E race...I made that mistake once

 

"The new sound of Formula E"

http://www.fiaformulae.com



Dan (would never go)

 

I personally don't feel a strong need for the GT3 to be tied to the race cars. I see it as a great non-racing track car which can readily be driven on the street. If it does that job reliably and durably, I'm happy.

As far as lack of drama and emotion, as long as you have tires searching for grip, all kinds of forces going on, the visuals of speed, the need to control the car with the three basic inputs, and the possibility of spinning, going off, rolling, hitting hard things, etc., I think there will be plenty of engagement and excitement. I'm no longer sure that sound track is an essential part of the experience (I'm talking about driving, not spectating races), though I certainly enjoy the sound of the GT3 when it's wound up.

I'm not suggesting that electric is objectively better overall. Just that it has potential due to some technical merits, so I no longer shudder at the prospect of the GT3 one day being electric. I also think I'd prefer a hybrid GT3 over a turbo GT3.

 

Manifold, there is GT1 the Le Mans type pure race cars, there are GT2, the turbo charged 911s, there are GT3s, the normally aspirated 911s and now we have GT4s for the Euro cup. These cars are all linked to racing.

If Porsche wants an electric, they can do so outside of our racing class GT cars. If they want to do a GTE fine but, there is no need to dilute the past and current GT classes.

Dan (thinks we're just not communicating)

 

An electric GT3 might have relevance in a different kind of world than we have today, but I don't think we're ready to go there yet. I have no desire to give up my NA GT3. I think I get what Manifold is saying though. It might be possible for an electric powered sports car to offer a reasonable level of overall driver involvement and excitement if it were done right.

Mike (who thinks Dan may not have seen the chase scene from I, Robot with Will Smith driving the electric Audi )

 

That Audi may as well have been the Mission E...without wheels. The drama wasn't created by the car, it was created by the robots punching through windshields trying to kill Will Smith.

Dan (read Asimov and knows the three laws )

 

You really think the killer robots had something to do with it?

 

Sounds like a dentist's drill!

I get what Manifold is saying, but the soundtrack is a huge part of the driving experience for me. And that's as true on the road as it is on the track. However, I could see Porsche creating a synthetic soundtrack through the interior speakers, not terribly different from what BMW already does for their turbo offerings.

 

I had the same thought. Could have a menu of sounds to choose from (eg, vintage 2015 GT3), and adjust volume to desired level.

Just remembered that I've done some indoor electric karting. First time, it was odd to have very little sound and no shifting. But I got used to those aspects quickly and stopped noticing them as I focused on driving, drifting, competing, etc.

 

Is the same difference between a jap electronic watch
and a swiss hand made mechanical luxury watch

up to you to choose which one for what

 

I have driven a Tesla P90D in "insane" mode on a closed course, HARD. For 120k you get a one trick pony; not comfortable enough for a luxury car, and not fast enough for a true sports car (aside from 0-60).

Was I impressed wit the 0-60 times? Sure. Do I think electric is the future? Sure, it is a possibility. But not with today's technology. If any of you have ever owned a Laptop for an extended period of time, the batteries have a finite life. Charge cycles, heat, and alot of other factors contribute to this.

What happens when these batteries need replacement? The things cost like 40k. How is that sustainable? I mean, I know Porsche replaced all the 991 gt3 engines but damn....

If you buy this car, or basically the TSLA hype, please tell me how the "gigafactory" (completely hyped name for a battery factory) is going to make $40k electric laptop batteries feasible from a business standpoint? So TSLA is prepared to replace everyone's batteries when they realize it makes a fraction of the range it used to?

Unless there is a REAL quantum leap in battery technology, this just won't be the future. It was a good strike at it, but the ICE just offers way too many advantages.

Electric has a few advantages: 1. no transmission, 2. Simple motors, 3. "quiet" for those that like that

Disadvantages: Much slower than competition both on track (extremely heavy battery) and on fast road driving. Range will dissipate. Battery will definitely need replacement, while many ICE cars can go a million miles/decades of driving on one engine and transmission. And finally...road trips and commercial use. Getting gas and tossing it into an engine takes a few minutes max. It doesn't have a degrading range and it offers immense power. I drive from Austin to Houston and back some days, while driving all around Houston, and there is just no way a TSLA could do that practically.

It is a plaything for people to show their friends their impractical 3rd,4th,5th car.

Am I burying my head in the sand, lamenting the progression of technology? No; it's a bunch of laptop batteries and an RC motor with cool words like "ludicrous mode". I don't know how other people don't see that. Elon Musk just managed to hype it EXTREMELY well. But, if there is some quantum leap i'm all ears. It just is not there yet to be considered "the future." Somewhat comfortable replacement for the around town car for people with enough money to not worry about practicality? Sure I will give it that. If anyone can explain how economies of scale are going to allow the gigafactory and elon to sell their "cheap" Tesla for 30k please enlighten me. Perhaps one day he will actually make money on the Model S cars they are selling and not just on the stock they are pushing/subsidies they are receiving.