Keith Verges - Dallas

Today some friends and I played a little hookey, and we drove my relatively new GT3 a 2008 Scud, and a 458 Speciale. I drove both the GT3 and the Scud. The car is entirely as delivered, and I drew the black bean of Dunlop tires, although I understand there is some debate about their pace relative to the Michelins.

Anyway, I went out at the 9 AM session, and the temperature was already 85°. I had a full tank of fuel, a passenger, and we had weighed the car with fuel at 3310 pounds. Best lap was a 1:20.079. After that, the tires got hot (rear tire pressures up over 40 psi), and the car was a bit of a handful to drive. Most of the laps were in the 1:21 range.
The thing that amazed me was the coolant temperature and brakes (no fade). In this session, my maximum water temperature was approximately 203°, and my maximum oil temperature was 235°. I was shifting manually and doing my best to run the car to 9000 RPM on every shift. There was no fade, absolutely no compromise in the way I drove the car, And the only car that comes close was my 2005 Lotus Elise It was slower, although not by as much as you might expect, and suffered no issues with excessive coolant temperatures or brake fade.

I followed up at 11:30 AM with another session when the ambient temperature was approximately 92°, and all of my laps were in the 121s or low 122s. Fluid temperatures wer 207 water and 243 oil. Again, I had a passenger, and we were just having a good time with the car.

Now the negatives are that the car pushes like a pig. It clearly needs more front camber and I don't know how the rear wheel steering works, but I almost wish it would countersteer to help the car rotate, although I suspect it steers in tandem with the front wheels at speed. I suspect with more aggressive alignment, Hoosier R7s and 19 inch wheels, the car will easily break into the teens when the temperature is below 80°F.

Porsche really got it right in terms of managing coolant temperatures and ability to hammer on the car on track. the car punches way above its weight in terms of horsepower.

qbix

The car requires different driving technique. Then it won't understeer. Brake hard into turns and you will see the difference. I come from M3 and if I did brake the same way in that car I would go sideways every turn. Or even backwards.
Adjusting cambers at this level will give you no results at all. Learn to drive it first the way it should be driven (I still do and see long way ahead although I do pretty good times at my track).

Keith Verges - Dallas

I was trailing pretty hard and the big problem was on exit. I had to delay throttle application, as the car wanted to depart the track.

vantage

Even though the Elise is mid-engined the adjustment to a 911 from that car is not huge in terms of getting weight over front axle so I suspect Keith is good there. That said, this is definately a 911 trait (see comments about how 991 RS improves front end grip) even once camber is dialed in.

Kobalt

Drive slower?

kyrocks

I just joined MSR. Keith, you are almost a second faster than I am. I also got Dunlops and really hate them. The car does under steer a lot. I will be taking mine to Steve Taylor at Park Place for more camber. I am currently running -2.0 all around and the outside of the tires are done. I have a new set of trofeo r to try as well. I look forward to beating my 997.2 RS time on Hoosiers...

SamFromTX

Good to see a report from someone with your abilities, Keith. You underscored what I have been stating all along, which is the car's tendency to understeer, and I have -3 all around.

Keith Verges - Dallas

Like I said I did nothing at all to optimize the car; cooler temps, playing with tire pressures and experimenting with alignment are all on the table and I suspect have to help. Also, shedding a pax and running a non-full extended range tank will drop 200+ lbs so the car should go 1:18s on street tires in the fall with a sunny 50s ambient day. But I am perhaps most impressed with how hard I can hammer the car with no worries about cooling or brakes in warm temps.

Keith Verges - Dallas

I struggled with indersteer in my 00 Cup. The car's incredible ability to put power down on exit combined with about 61% of static weight on rear tires is a big challenge to have grip on the front tires. I tended to just kick the throttle once or twice mid corner to point the car and then go. I also found some mid corner left foot brake could help. Thank god no one programmed the car to freak out when brake and throttle are engaged simultaneously.

SamFromTX

Yeaaah, I'll try left foot brake in mid corner next time, and will likely end up in the pond...

You'll consistently get 1:18:xx easy in cooler weather. My best time was 1:18:99 in sunny 45-50 degree weather and fresh PSC2

MaxLTV

I found this car under steers on entry with slower brake release but oversteers with very quick release. It's possible to find sweet spot but it's rather small. Mid corner, my current set up oversteers or neutral, and exit is neutral to slight oversteer, just as I like it. I wish I could reduce mud corner oversteer.

It's much better under throttle than on brakes, and does not like coasting at all.

MaxLTV

Just to clarify - I have -3 front and -2.5 rear camber, and slight front toe out.

Mech33

Keith what pads are you running?

Keith Verges - Dallas

Whatever was on the car. I did zero, Nada, zip, as in nothing but drive the car from the dealership to the track. Oh I did put in gas. And I lowered tire pressures 25 front and 27 rear and still exceeded 40 PSI on the rear tires at the end of the session

Mech33

Were you pretty happy with the brake feel? The OEM setup felt very squishy / odd to me.