Tacet-Conundrum

Just as for an asides and for a good laugh I thought I would pass this advertisement along to the forum. Saw This on Cars dot com. The owner has put $15K worth of improvement's which include headers and some suspension improvement's. Also the owner put more correct 17"x10" in the rear instead of the under rated 17"x7". He's listing the car at $33K trying to recoupe some of his improvement's which rarely will give a return at all.

But get this, the owner of the car says it OUT Handles a GT3! Maybe if "I" were driving the GT3 but get a PCA instructor or say good ole Walter Rohrl then the owner of the BRZ would have a different perspective.

Any thought's on this; I almost spat my coffee out when I saw that? I won't say it is necessarily impossible for a properly race prepped BRZ/FRS/GT86 but a car with some simple add on's it makes me giggle. What are the odds?

FLTPLAN

I wouldn't doubt it on an autocross course. Anything bigger and it's just not happening. Mazda Miatas constantly outdo the GT3 at autocrosses.

Tacet-Conundrum

Not at Laguna Seca. Each car would have it's strong points. That's why the Mini Cooper did well in Rally Racing before the racing team's got it in their heads to use AWD in the early 80's. Before that the team's believed that the AWD systems and ancillaries weighed too much and would be too heavy to be competitive.

reidry

I'd ask for proof.

I own both a 991 GT3 and a Spec Miata.

His modified BRZ may be a pretty good autocross car, it may even track pretty well, but as a blanket statement, "out handles a GT3" ... I'm not buying.

Ryan

Manifold

It's a meaningless marketing comment until he defines what he means by handling better. Coincidentally, I just had a student running a BRZ which was basically stock except for R888s. Decent car, but I don't think I'll trade my GT3 for one.

rockitman

Subi love...lol

reidry

How about two? I'll give you choice of color, two brand new BRZs for your old, used up 991 GT3.

lol

Ryan

ToyGuyAZ

I have a fully setup spec FRS on NT01's and I also have a new GT3. The FRS is VERY good around the track and transitions better than the GT3 in several spots. It's also shockingly quick around the track.

Mark Dreyer

I believe Randy Pobst said that in stock form the BRZ was the perfect handling car, or something to that effect.

Manifold

I believe he said something similar when he first test drove the Cayman R.

It's actually an interesting discussion. To me, 'good handling' is when a car's general response to my inputs is intuitive with no rude surprises, the balance between oversteer and understeer is generally neutral with ability to elicit either one at will (mainly oversteer), corrections aren't too difficult to make, braking works well and inspires confidence, rotation of the car can be controlled readily with both throttle and brakes, the car puts power down well, etc. Seems that accomplishing these objectives involves some tradeoffs, and maybe 'optimal handling' means finding the sweet spot among these tradeoffs, though I think there's some subjectivity there.

I gravitate towards the 911 platform (not sure why, just feels 'right' to me), but have thoroughly enjoyed cars with the engine in the middle and front as well.

pitt911

i owned a BRZ stock for 8 months except for RE 11 tires. The car handles reasonably well, though engine is way over rated at 200 hp. when ever i drove it , it was pedal to the metal for the thing to move at a decent pace. The GT3 is a completely different league of a car. Now if they do an STI version with some kind of forced induction and suspension/brakes etc, I think it will be a nice cheap track car

Sloopy

One would have to do a back to back test or one done by very capable professional. The variable between amateur drivers is too great.

I ounce chased down an F430 in a Honda Toaster. Only change on the toaster was wheels tires and springs. Road was very tight and the was probably fearful of mountain roads.

I am no means a professional.

Tacet-Conundrum

I like the BRZ/FRS very much. But the flaw off the lot is the rear tires are too Narrow being only 17"x7"! Trying to be competitive with those narrow tires is impossible. That is why the tuner's like to put wider, even if it is a +1, in width because it helps the grip. Jeremy Clarkson liked the "GT86", for that is what it is sold as by Toyota in Europe, very much because he could break the grip going around their test track wearing out the tires like the Yarbough (Yarbow(SP?)) that he is.

But I almost bought one based on emotion after a test drive about 6 months ago. Off the lot for the price it has to be one of the better handling cars due to how low and far back the engine sits in the chassis.

But even modified saying the BRZ is better handling than a GT3 are some big boots to fill. Further there are a ton of forced induction solution's available for this car that can make a good car even better.

Keith Verges - Dallas

If by handling you discount horsepower's effect on lap times, then it is not too great a stretch to say a modified BRZ can out-handle a stock GT3. An interesting experiment would be to limit the GT3 to the same power-to-weight ratio and see how lap times shake out.

Tacet-Conundrum

Well anyone can design a track specific for their car that would smoke car's with three times the power. I remember doing that with Grand Turissmo II for the Playstation and dialing in the gears and the suspension and killing friend's with a Honda Civic by 12 seconds on the smallest tracks with many turns. Ultimately each car has a specific Arena it was made for.

I'm still saying the BRZ/FRS needs at least an 17"x8" from the factory. Don't know if they went 17"x7" for tire rotating - I know sounds a bit silly but still. That engine could use another 50-75BHP to the wheels which means a good 70-95BHP at the crank! Don't know why Subaru just doesn't Turbo Charge it? I don't feel that it would take sales from the Impreza. Two different group's shopping; ever been to Reno or a Place that has a good amount of snow for four or months in a year? We could talk for hours on this issue.