A guided tour of the 2015 Porsche 911 GT3 RS – by the boss
04-27-2015, 11:21 PM
#16
Drifting
These are the threads that matter and why I joined. Damn good.
04-27-2015, 11:32 PM
#17
As I read this, I wonder if I am the only one that really could care less. All of this hype for a car that can't be ordered by anyone that doesn't have connections is really irrelevant. I would be interested and order one if I could but that is not possible. Hey Porsche, if there is demand, up your production, your dealers will thank you!
04-28-2015, 12:31 AM
#18
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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"In all likelihood if you're not running the autobahn you can lower front and rear ride height significantly because you'll never have the aero loads to fully compress the suspension, so the increase in CG height may be largely theoretical.*"
+1000
Herr Andreas said on Total911 about the new RS
"Ring is a nonsense, most of our customers will never
drive the car at that average speed"
RS is a PAG R&D cerebral masturbation stimulated
by the Marketing dept. (Ring for marketing is still a weapon)
outcome: a CoG higher and a price delta spent for me in the
wrong direction (The Ring instead a Ruf like 550HP 500Nm tq...)
to just (try) to come closer the Nismo at Ring plus Webber on the car needed to at least have a chance
And AP knows that very well so next one
give us a much lighter PDK-S and 10% more tq/hp
i know is expensive but if Mc can do the 570 at 185k$
at that (RS) price you can give us more than aero/suspension setup
for Ring projects
+1000
Herr Andreas said on Total911 about the new RS
"Ring is a nonsense, most of our customers will never
drive the car at that average speed"
RS is a PAG R&D cerebral masturbation stimulated
by the Marketing dept. (Ring for marketing is still a weapon)
outcome: a CoG higher and a price delta spent for me in the
wrong direction (The Ring instead a Ruf like 550HP 500Nm tq...)
to just (try) to come closer the Nismo at Ring plus Webber on the car needed to at least have a chance
And AP knows that very well so next one
give us a much lighter PDK-S and 10% more tq/hp
i know is expensive but if Mc can do the 570 at 185k$
at that (RS) price you can give us more than aero/suspension setup
for Ring projects
Last edited by fxz; 04-28-2015 at 01:36 AM.
04-28-2015, 12:53 AM
#19
Intermediate
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: ATLANTA, GA
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Regarding the voiding of warranty for running slicks, I was at Road ATL last week with two 991 GT3s who used R6 Hoosiers in front and R7 in back on 19 wheels. They said no issues on warranty. Is that because these tires are not 'true' slicks? I then called my dealer yesterday and they specifically said the following quote for running Hoosiers: "No it does not effect the Porsche warranty at all, unless the wheels caused some sort of camber issue or axel control arms, then it would not be covered on those parts directly." I'm new to all of this...so i'll stick to my pilot sport cup 2s on the track...but please let me know the accurate answer as they crushed my lap times on the Hoosiers! Thx!
04-28-2015, 02:59 AM
#20
GT3 player par excellence
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The RS is going to be a superior package for going fast in nearly every way. I think the issue is that it's difficult to boil complex technical issues down to soundbites and talking points. Changing to a magnesium roof does lower the CG slightly, but much less than raising the ride height increases it. It is still a good thing, however. Similarly the extra downforce is very good, even if the effort to explain it wasn't quite accurate.
On the 21" wheels, Porsche has made the massively complex tradeoffs, and you're best to trust them. Higher CG, altered rear anti-squat. Rear roll center height changes the roll axis changes the handling balance, altered kinematics, all migrating with speed (due to downforce and changing ride height). Altered rake changes downforce and aero balance. Increased grip alters the swaybar and suspension setup. Revised ABS, stability and TC settings due to diameter. Narrower rear slip angle impacts passive compliance steer and active RWS setup. Personally, I'd trust Porsche to get it all right rather than second guess their wheel choice. One area I would look at, however: In all likelihood if you're not running the autobahn you can lower front and rear ride height significantly because you'll never have the aero loads to fully compress the suspension, so the increase in CG height may be largely theoretical.
To some extent the difficulty explaining all of this is one of the few good justifications for our fascination with 'Ring times. It's virtually certain that no customer will ever touch them and they say very little about how a car drives, but it's one way to cut through all of the technical puts and takes. AP can "shut up and drive" and boil a thesis worth of technical analysis down to one number... 75% of which comes down to tires, but it's the best we've got.
Still a very crude way to judge the experience behind the wheel, which is why journalists have a job...
On the 21" wheels, Porsche has made the massively complex tradeoffs, and you're best to trust them. Higher CG, altered rear anti-squat. Rear roll center height changes the roll axis changes the handling balance, altered kinematics, all migrating with speed (due to downforce and changing ride height). Altered rake changes downforce and aero balance. Increased grip alters the swaybar and suspension setup. Revised ABS, stability and TC settings due to diameter. Narrower rear slip angle impacts passive compliance steer and active RWS setup. Personally, I'd trust Porsche to get it all right rather than second guess their wheel choice. One area I would look at, however: In all likelihood if you're not running the autobahn you can lower front and rear ride height significantly because you'll never have the aero loads to fully compress the suspension, so the increase in CG height may be largely theoretical.
To some extent the difficulty explaining all of this is one of the few good justifications for our fascination with 'Ring times. It's virtually certain that no customer will ever touch them and they say very little about how a car drives, but it's one way to cut through all of the technical puts and takes. AP can "shut up and drive" and boil a thesis worth of technical analysis down to one number... 75% of which comes down to tires, but it's the best we've got.
Still a very crude way to judge the experience behind the wheel, which is why journalists have a job...
04-28-2015, 09:11 AM
#21
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I did my share of emissions tuning on grey-market imports in the '80s with custom-designed controllers. The factory guys knew all the tricks and I never did any better than did they on getting test-conforming power from the Euro versions.
Nowadays, shade tree mechanics have almost no chance of making any desirable "improvements" over the factory setup.
I'm very happy to "shut up and drive".
04-28-2015, 06:43 PM
#23
The RS's mission, on the other hand, is to be Porsche's most track capable street car this side of the 918 Weissach. If you're not changing that focus but simply hoping to improve on it...? Good luck. At least for the next half decade or so.
04-28-2015, 06:53 PM
#24
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I think Porsche recently made a calculated decision to extend their warranty to track use (previously it was technically excluded from warranty, but often covered by sympathetic dealers). In that decision they also disclaimed the warranty on cars tracked with pure slicks (not DOT tires like Hoosier R7, etc.).
I think it's a reasonable way to allow those of us hobbyists to have confidence that our cars will continue to be warrantied for amateur lapping events on DOT tires but Porsche will not be on the hook for expensive race support.
I think the policy is the same on all of the sports cars whether Dry Sump, Integrated Dry Sump, or supercars (918, etc).
I think it's a reasonable way to allow those of us hobbyists to have confidence that our cars will continue to be warrantied for amateur lapping events on DOT tires but Porsche will not be on the hook for expensive race support.
I think the policy is the same on all of the sports cars whether Dry Sump, Integrated Dry Sump, or supercars (918, etc).
04-28-2015, 07:38 PM
#26
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EDIT: I see you're in Ireland - I'm only talking about USA (and our longer 4 year warranties) - not sure about international policy - sorry for confusion
04-28-2015, 07:49 PM
#27
GT3 player par excellence
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It depends- are you changing the car's original mission?. The Cayman's original mission, for example, was to be Porsche's entry level sports car. If your mission is track/ competition the Cayman is easy to improve on- adjustable suspension, bigger engine, etc- the car that won Parade last year being the poster child.
The RS's mission, on the other hand, is to be Porsche's most track capable street car this side of the 918 Weissach. If you're not changing that focus but simply hoping to improve on it...? Good luck. At least for the next half decade or so.
The RS's mission, on the other hand, is to be Porsche's most track capable street car this side of the 918 Weissach. If you're not changing that focus but simply hoping to improve on it...? Good luck. At least for the next half decade or so.
the winning cayman is wonderful at what it does, but it is no longer a sporty car really want to drive to work or to brunch through a few canyon runs as the car was designed for.
similarly for RS. if one wants to seriously race or track it (without getting into why not just buy a cup car), you will have to gut it, cage it, composite doors, shocks and such then it no longer can be driven on street or do the LOOP we did comfortably.
it's easy to improve on a few parameters. but the MISSION OR THE PACKAGE is very hard to improve upon in their totality.
