Notices
991 GT3, GT3RS, GT2RS and 911R 2012-2019
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Money2536's Case Study: Dyno of Connected/Disconnected Exhaust Valves

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-19-2014 | 08:16 PM
  #16  
mdkim's Avatar
mdkim
Racer
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Default

This is fabulous info! Thanks so much for taking the time to do this!
Old 12-19-2014 | 08:45 PM
  #17  
bronson7's Avatar
bronson7
Nordschleife Master
 
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,843
Likes: 5
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Being I'm not up to speed as many of you here, my question is why is the GT3 rated at 475 hp and 325 ft lbs. but the dyno reports on Money's car shows much less. What am I interpreting incorrectly?
Old 12-19-2014 | 08:52 PM
  #18  
Mike in CA's Avatar
Mike in CA
Race Director
 
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,084
Likes: 244
From: North Bay Area, CA
Default

Originally Posted by bronson7
Being I'm not up to speed as many of you here, my question is why is the GT3 rated at 475 hp and 325 ft lbs. but the dyno reports on Money's car shows much less. What am I interpreting incorrectly?
The big difference is that these read outs are for rear wheel horsepower. I'm no dyno expert, but honestly, given the car's performance numbers I would have expected higher numbers even at the rear wheels. Someone correct me if I have that wrong.
Old 12-19-2014 | 08:53 PM
  #19  
Rovman's Avatar
Rovman
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 847
Likes: 6
From: Lafayette, La.
Default

Very good post. Thanks for investing the time and effort. Very interesting, thanks for posting.
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:05 PM
  #20  
fastmd's Avatar
fastmd
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,247
Likes: 281
From: In the garage
Default

Great post Money! All dynos are different, but how conservative did they say their dyno performs? Also, what is the current thinking on drivetrain loss with Porsche's and the 991?
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:09 PM
  #21  
rosenbergendo's Avatar
rosenbergendo
Drifting
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,737
Likes: 650
Default

Car should be 425 with such low drivetrain loss or so at wheels.
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:23 PM
  #22  
allans's Avatar
allans
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 2
From: Roswell, Ga.
Default

Very good info. Did they measure air/fuel ratios? thanks, allan
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:24 PM
  #23  
sunnyr's Avatar
sunnyr
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,385
Likes: 156
From: Bay Area, CA
Default

Originally Posted by bronson7
Being I'm not up to speed as many of you here, my question is why is the GT3 rated at 475 hp and 325 ft lbs. but the dyno reports on Money's car shows much less. What am I interpreting incorrectly?
I am also curious about this. The max HP on the dyno charts seems to be ~380HP. Even with 15% drivetrain loss, the HP at the engine crank would work out to be ~437HP. Did the dyno guys give you a reason why it is reading so low?
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:28 PM
  #24  
ZZinger's Avatar
ZZinger
Racer
 
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 448
Likes: 11
From: Northern Virginia
Default

Very informative post by Money as always. Thank you for the info sir! I am plugging my valves in the am to give it a try.
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:31 PM
  #25  
horns's Avatar
horns
Pro
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 573
Likes: 199
Default

Originally Posted by Money2536


Run 2:
PSE ON Connected Valves at Moderate Throttle in 3rd Gear from 2-5K
This shocked me a bit. It leads me to believe there is something more to the PSE button of than just the valves opening. Notice how much flatter the curves are. Remember the valve are still opening around the same RPM, yet we don't see a rather linear curve.

Matt
I'm sure this has been covered many times over, but please clarify one point for me. Your comments following Run 2, lead me to believe the PSE button only changes the valve operation at idle.

Can we break the valve operation into 3 areas: 1)Idle, 2) off idle up to ~4000rpm, and 3) above 4000rpm?

My understanding of PSE off based on your comments following Run 2 are:
1) valves closed
2) valves closed
3) valves open

With PSE on, I think the valve position would be:
1) valves open
2) valves closed
3) valves open

Is that correct? I thought PSE effected higher rpm as well.
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:36 PM
  #26  
rockitman's Avatar
rockitman
Nordschleife Master
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,735
Likes: 3
From: Got Revs ???
Default

Originally Posted by rosenbergendo
Car should be 425 with such low drivetrain loss or so at wheels.
I think the dyno jet is the issue. I seem to remember back when i did my 996.2-3 back in 2005 at AWE Performance in PA that Mustang Dyno's gave more accurate results. My car with a Europipe exhaust did 377HP at the wheels.
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:46 PM
  #27  
OldGuy's Avatar
OldGuy
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,474
Likes: 51
From: Southwest Idaho
Default

Hugh Wrote
Thanks for the work here! More concerning is a 100 hp drop. Drive train I thought should be 15% or so? Well if it will still do the qtr at 126mph as advertised who am i to care...
It would be interesting to see a Z06 or some other radically different motor on the same Dyno back to back to see what kind of losses are being experienced through the dyno. This is really puzzling.

But as far as the work Matt did:I Love SICK engineers!! Its how humanity moves forward!!! On important $hit like this!!!!
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:46 PM
  #28  
NateOZ's Avatar
NateOZ
Race Car
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,530
Likes: 29
From: New York
Default

Originally Posted by rockitman
I think the dyno jet is the issue. I seem to remember back when i did my 996.2-3 back in 2005 at AWE Performance in PA that Mustang Dyno's gave more accurate results. My car with a Europipe exhaust did 377HP at the wheels.
This + US Gasoline is junk if you're using Premium US pump gas it's down 4 to 5 octane than the European equivalent.
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:47 PM
  #29  
Turbohead's Avatar
Turbohead
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 50
From: Palm Beaches Fl /Southern VT
Default

Thanks Matt you did us all a solid.Great job

BTW does anyone know where the electrical plug for the valves are.?
On my 997 GT3 it was right up on the right side of the engine very easy to disconnect and reconnect (maybe 5 seconds )

Elliot
Old 12-19-2014 | 09:54 PM
  #30  
008's Avatar
008
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,020
Likes: 53
From: Houston
Default

As he mentioned in the post the rears are also driving the front rollers which is a greater load. You can do a reverse negative run to calculate loss on dynojets but consistency between changes as opposed to ultimate numbers is more important. Was the throttle position sensor tapped for the various partial throttle runs so they were consistent? Have these been sae normalized? Any chance there was an intake air thermometer set between the runs to monitor loss fom heat gain?


Quick Reply: Money2536's Case Study: Dyno of Connected/Disconnected Exhaust Valves



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 07:59 AM.