The Gateway Drug
09-12-2014, 05:49 PM
#16
Hate to break it to you,but a tranny where you do not actually engage the engine through a mechanical action(clutch),but instead the computer does it for you when receiving an input from the driver,it's called an automatic. It's not a torque converter slushbox,but it's an automatic all right!
09-12-2014, 05:53 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
I love my manual...see avatar. '04 GT3. I can't believe I am looking to get an automatic RS if/when I am allocated. 
I am getting older now, so perhaps it's time. '04-'05 996 the last of the great purist GT3's.....no ladies traction aides...only abs and your skills....so I am torn whether to do it or not. If the allocation is official and I can configure the car, I will decide then. The RS will most likely win and the 996 will be traded.
I am getting older now, so perhaps it's time. '04-'05 996 the last of the great purist GT3's.....no ladies traction aides...only abs and your skills....so I am torn whether to do it or not. If the allocation is official and I can configure the car, I will decide then. The RS will most likely win and the 996 will be traded.
09-12-2014, 05:58 PM
#18
Race Director
^The good thing is you will have the option to turn off all the aides. I think ABS is the only aid you can not turn off.
I am betting your 996 will be traded
I am betting your 996 will be traded
09-12-2014, 06:23 PM
#19
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09-14-2014, 12:01 AM
#20
Gents,
Thank you for your replies, I didn't mean to start a MT vs. PDK thread, but just wanted to hear opinions of folks who have driven the 991 GT3, especially those who have had some serious seat time in both a 981S and 991 GT3. Again, apples and oranges, can't compare these two cars of course, just interested to hear pros/cons of both from someone else's perspective!
Has GT4 been confirmed?
Thank you for your replies, I didn't mean to start a MT vs. PDK thread, but just wanted to hear opinions of folks who have driven the 991 GT3, especially those who have had some serious seat time in both a 981S and 991 GT3. Again, apples and oranges, can't compare these two cars of course, just interested to hear pros/cons of both from someone else's perspective!
Has GT4 been confirmed?
09-15-2014, 03:23 AM
#22
GT3 player par excellence
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Ladies and Gents,
First off, thanks for all the great input that everyone contributes to this board, it's truly a wealth of knowledge and thank you for sharing!
Secondly, I apologize in advance for this long winded post, but I am positive I am in good company on this board who can offer their opinions about my situation which I fortunate enough to be in.
Cayman/Boxster: The Gateway Drug
So about a year ago I got the urge to ditch my BMW 550xDrive, which I thought at the time of purchase was "sporty" enough, and stumble into my local Porsche dealership. I was coming from a long history of BMW coupes and sedans, mainly 3's and 5's that were generation after generation loosing their sporty soul so to speak. Each iteration of BMW's lineup had become more and more bland/clinical/numb. So I thought it was time to give a "real" sports car a drive and compare. The new Cayman 981S had just been out for few months and I saw it at the dealership for the first time in the flesh and of course drove it....what ensued from that drive was the equivalent of having removed casts from both of my legs and immediately breaking into a sprint. I could not believe what I had been "missing out" on all of these years!! What the hell was I doing buying luxury sedans along with the rest of the sheep thinking this was "the ultimate driving machine". No offense to BMW or people that buy them, they make dependable luxury cars for the masses, but they had steadily been loosing their sportiness IMO. So I test drove the crap out of that Cayman S manual and was hooked instantly. Drove the PDK, but didn't feel that instant connection as I did in the 6MT. The balance, the noise, the involvement of the 6MT, WOW. I broke my cherry, there was no turning back, so I bought the car. I never even bothered driving a 911, I thought who needs anything more for the street, why pay more when I was totally happy with what the Cayman delivered. I even thought it was a better looking car than the 991.
Fast forward five months after Cayman ownership...I still loved the balance, size, scalpel like handling precision, but I felt it needed more power, it just wasn't blowing me away the way that it used to. So where does one go when they have such a quandary, the porsche dealership of course. I drive the 991C2S manual and PDK, again, no real connection with PDK car, but with 6MT it just felt right and the extra power was on tap when needed vs. the 981S.
Fast forward four months later at a time where I was looking for a DD that the wife can use as well and of course I find my way to the porsche dealership and luck into a Macan S (has SC, PTV, PASM..no luxury goodies). So now after a few months driving the PDK Macan I finally get just how awesome the PDK transmission is, and how awesome the Macan is as well. Not to add flame to the MT vs PDK fire, but I always thought of myself as a die hard MT guy, but PDK has changed that. I began to understand how technologically superior the PDK box is vs MT, albeit just a little less engaging, but much more fast/efficient than I will ever be. So after this epiphany, where do I go, yup you guessed it, back to the dealership and test drive a Cayman GTS and 991 C2S (both equipped with PDK gearboxes). Take home messages form these drives were Cayman is still a better balanced car then the 911, can only fight physics to a certain point, and that it still needed more torque/HP.
Finally, why I the hell I am writing on a GT3 board, well I sold my 6MT 991 C2S and ordered a 2015 GT3!! I am writing to you all for your ownership experience, knowledge, etc. to ask you all about the GT3's driving dynamics, as I have never driven one!
I am confident that the GT3 power-plant is awesome and not laking, although maybe in torque (as compared to a turbo), but I also wonder about the "feel" of the 911 GT3 chassis/dynamic. I am sure its better than a standard carrera with its rear-axle steering, but does it feel as nimble as a smaller mid engined cayman? I ask these questions out of ignorance and I am in no way trying to stir up any sort of controversy, but I wanted the opinions of people who know better than me what the "real" story is so to speak. I wonder if I would be better off in a GTS cayman, although lacking in power but great balance, or a GT3, not to compare the cars, but to say which one is better for me!! Porsche as a brand makes awesome cars and we are all privileged enough to be able to drive them. Bottom line is, once you get a taste of what P-cars can do and how they make you feel, you just want more!! I want to have as much fun as possible on four wheels. I only track about once a quarter, but may start doing more if the "boss" allows it!
P-Car777
First off, thanks for all the great input that everyone contributes to this board, it's truly a wealth of knowledge and thank you for sharing!
Secondly, I apologize in advance for this long winded post, but I am positive I am in good company on this board who can offer their opinions about my situation which I fortunate enough to be in.
Cayman/Boxster: The Gateway Drug
So about a year ago I got the urge to ditch my BMW 550xDrive, which I thought at the time of purchase was "sporty" enough, and stumble into my local Porsche dealership. I was coming from a long history of BMW coupes and sedans, mainly 3's and 5's that were generation after generation loosing their sporty soul so to speak. Each iteration of BMW's lineup had become more and more bland/clinical/numb. So I thought it was time to give a "real" sports car a drive and compare. The new Cayman 981S had just been out for few months and I saw it at the dealership for the first time in the flesh and of course drove it....what ensued from that drive was the equivalent of having removed casts from both of my legs and immediately breaking into a sprint. I could not believe what I had been "missing out" on all of these years!! What the hell was I doing buying luxury sedans along with the rest of the sheep thinking this was "the ultimate driving machine". No offense to BMW or people that buy them, they make dependable luxury cars for the masses, but they had steadily been loosing their sportiness IMO. So I test drove the crap out of that Cayman S manual and was hooked instantly. Drove the PDK, but didn't feel that instant connection as I did in the 6MT. The balance, the noise, the involvement of the 6MT, WOW. I broke my cherry, there was no turning back, so I bought the car. I never even bothered driving a 911, I thought who needs anything more for the street, why pay more when I was totally happy with what the Cayman delivered. I even thought it was a better looking car than the 991.
Fast forward five months after Cayman ownership...I still loved the balance, size, scalpel like handling precision, but I felt it needed more power, it just wasn't blowing me away the way that it used to. So where does one go when they have such a quandary, the porsche dealership of course. I drive the 991C2S manual and PDK, again, no real connection with PDK car, but with 6MT it just felt right and the extra power was on tap when needed vs. the 981S.
Fast forward four months later at a time where I was looking for a DD that the wife can use as well and of course I find my way to the porsche dealership and luck into a Macan S (has SC, PTV, PASM..no luxury goodies). So now after a few months driving the PDK Macan I finally get just how awesome the PDK transmission is, and how awesome the Macan is as well. Not to add flame to the MT vs PDK fire, but I always thought of myself as a die hard MT guy, but PDK has changed that. I began to understand how technologically superior the PDK box is vs MT, albeit just a little less engaging, but much more fast/efficient than I will ever be. So after this epiphany, where do I go, yup you guessed it, back to the dealership and test drive a Cayman GTS and 991 C2S (both equipped with PDK gearboxes). Take home messages form these drives were Cayman is still a better balanced car then the 911, can only fight physics to a certain point, and that it still needed more torque/HP.
Finally, why I the hell I am writing on a GT3 board, well I sold my 6MT 991 C2S and ordered a 2015 GT3!! I am writing to you all for your ownership experience, knowledge, etc. to ask you all about the GT3's driving dynamics, as I have never driven one!
I am confident that the GT3 power-plant is awesome and not laking, although maybe in torque (as compared to a turbo), but I also wonder about the "feel" of the 911 GT3 chassis/dynamic. I am sure its better than a standard carrera with its rear-axle steering, but does it feel as nimble as a smaller mid engined cayman? I ask these questions out of ignorance and I am in no way trying to stir up any sort of controversy, but I wanted the opinions of people who know better than me what the "real" story is so to speak. I wonder if I would be better off in a GTS cayman, although lacking in power but great balance, or a GT3, not to compare the cars, but to say which one is better for me!! Porsche as a brand makes awesome cars and we are all privileged enough to be able to drive them. Bottom line is, once you get a taste of what P-cars can do and how they make you feel, you just want more!! I want to have as much fun as possible on four wheels. I only track about once a quarter, but may start doing more if the "boss" allows it!
P-Car777
i have both, 986 987. and maybe GT4 if it arrives and several GT3/rs.
i have been asked this comparison often. it's hard to describe. after much thought, i summarized it as follows.
driving a cayman is like dating a 25 YO. she follows your command
driving a gt3 is like dating a 35 YO. she makes you work for it
both equally satisfying yet very different.
sounds strange but i bet those who owned both platform will agree with this simple analogy.
09-15-2014, 03:35 PM
#23
Mooty,
Thanks for sharing your POV, anyone who has been married knows that it sure would be nice for someone to actually follow your command once in a while ;-)
I guess then it begs the question is the GT3 worth the premium over the cayman GTS, both fantastic cars in their own right, but the GT3 being almost double the price.
Having said that, on the resale end of it, the hit on the GT3 may not be as bad as the GTS, or at least nearly equivocal.
Thanks for sharing your POV, anyone who has been married knows that it sure would be nice for someone to actually follow your command once in a while ;-)
I guess then it begs the question is the GT3 worth the premium over the cayman GTS, both fantastic cars in their own right, but the GT3 being almost double the price.
Having said that, on the resale end of it, the hit on the GT3 may not be as bad as the GTS, or at least nearly equivocal.
09-15-2014, 04:12 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Much easier/friendlier to learn straddling the limit with a Cayman/Boxster but once you get comfortable there and you learn to be ahead of the car, making your corrections be smaller and faster, the GT3 will reward you more for a job well done. At first it may seem masochistic (to opt for something that makes you work for it vs not) but, especially for men, it's probably more about the chase than the prey. For some reason, we simply don't value as much things that come to us too easy.
09-15-2014, 04:21 PM
#26
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+1 on the analogy.
Much easier/friendlier to learn straddling the limit with a Cayman/Boxster but once you get comfortable there and you learn to be ahead of the car, making your corrections be smaller and faster, the GT3 will reward you more for a job well done. At first it may seem masochistic (to opt for something that makes you work for it vs not) but, especially for men, it's probably more about the chase than the prey. For some reason, we simply don't value as much things that come to us too easy.
Much easier/friendlier to learn straddling the limit with a Cayman/Boxster but once you get comfortable there and you learn to be ahead of the car, making your corrections be smaller and faster, the GT3 will reward you more for a job well done. At first it may seem masochistic (to opt for something that makes you work for it vs not) but, especially for men, it's probably more about the chase than the prey. For some reason, we simply don't value as much things that come to us too easy.
I think that some people don't make a distinction and recognize that the appeal of a 911 isn't having 'worse' handling which the driver needs to struggle to compensate for, but rather that the car is setup to deliver great performance, but it can only be extracted if the driver works for it by really feeling what's going on and giving just the right inputs at just the right time. From that standpoint, is the 991 GT3 too 'easy' to drive on track, with it's PTV, RWS, etc.? I dunno, I haven't driven one, but the comments from Walter Rohrl and RLer Carrera GT make me wonder.
All of that said, driving a mid-engine car on the hairy/scary edge can be plenty challenging and fun too.
I feel fortunate to be able to switch back and forth between both platforms to experience both kinds of challenge and fun.
BTW, I heard a rumor from a friend who has a source inside Porsche that they're not moving forward with the Cayman GT4, but I have no idea how reliable or final that info is.
09-15-2014, 04:31 PM
#27
Race Director
^I would not be surprised.
How big would the market be if it did not come with a Manual?? - I do not think too big and the Cayman is already suffering from lack of sales. With a manual - may change quite a bit
How much would it steal from the GT3??
Would they rather chase the Ferarri/Lambo?McLaren market - aka- 960?
As much as I think it would be interesting if they did a GT4 with a manual I do not think they would let the performance impinge on the GT3 and I am enjoying this car too much to consider it an option
How big would the market be if it did not come with a Manual?? - I do not think too big and the Cayman is already suffering from lack of sales. With a manual - may change quite a bit
How much would it steal from the GT3??
Would they rather chase the Ferarri/Lambo?McLaren market - aka- 960?
As much as I think it would be interesting if they did a GT4 with a manual I do not think they would let the performance impinge on the GT3 and I am enjoying this car too much to consider it an option
09-15-2014, 04:42 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
That would suck for us (me) but probably music to the ears of the 3.8L conversion shops (BGB, DeMan, etc.)
09-16-2014, 09:18 AM
#29
Loving the analogies, interested to see if GT4 makes it to production. Agree with Jimmy-D, if no MT option, probably limited market especially at price point being close to GT3.
Manifold, may I ask what cars you switch back and forth from?
Hfi, nicely put, I also considered BGB conversion, but don't know anything about DeMan conversion.
Manifold, may I ask what cars you switch back and forth from?
Hfi, nicely put, I also considered BGB conversion, but don't know anything about DeMan conversion.
09-16-2014, 10:15 AM
#30
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