PC Valkyrie

Another independent German magazine test for the 991 GT3, but this time head to head against the 991 Turbo S.

Here are some of the key performance numbers:

GT3 Turbo S

0-100km/h: 3.3s 2.9s
0-200km/h: 10.9s 9.6s

Handling (laptime): 1:33,580 1:33,690
18m slalom: 74.1km/h 71.8km/h

Braking from 100km/h warm: 30.6m 31.7m

The GT3 was on Michelin Pilot Super Cup2, while the Turbo S was on Pirelli P Zero N0.

Interesting comparison. The GT3 had stickier tires, PDK-S, and is quite a bit lighter,.....but the Turbo S has much higher HP/torque, AWD, more degrees of rear wheel steering, PDCC, and active aerodynamics.

The Turbo S was more comfortable, better equipped, had much more room for rear passengers (no kidding!!), more fuel efficient, faster in acceleration, and only marginally slower on the track over a single lap. It won the comparison test overall.

kosmo

Wow. What about the measly base turbo?

Hoopumpers

I'm amazed they still ship cars with P Zeros. Crap tire.

Mike in CA

I suppose one ought to get something for the extra 40-50 grand......

doubleurx

I'm surprised the 0-200 number is so close, considering the 0-100 number.

Cool cars, both of them.

Der-Schwabe

Read that article too, a few observations:

- interestingly, during their test cycle the Turbo S was not more fuel efficient than the GT3, that included of course driving under full load, they state that both vehicles consumed almost the same amount by 0.1 liter/km (discussed in the 'engine/gearbox' section) and that the Turbo S missed the manufacturer claimed figure. GT3: 14.0 liter/100kms Turbo S: 14.1 liter/100 kms.
- the GT3 was markedly faster in corners than the Turbo S that caught the GT3 on the straights.
- in the conclusion section ("Fazit"), they explain that the Turbo S won for being a better 'all rounder' but they also state that verbatim (in German, of course) "every meter in the GT3 was a revelation. No other 911 was ever faster around the track and at the same time safer at the limit than the GT3. It is the current benchmark for the entire sportscar elite".

Manifold

IMO, doing these comparisons without using identical tires (regardless of the tires the car ships with) doesn't make sense. Tires make a big difference in both objective performance and subjective feel of the car. I've run my 997.1 C2S with the Dunlop SM Race tires and Super Sport street tires. The Dunlops make the car significantly more enjoyable on the road, and will surely put down a better lap time than the Super Sports.

frayed

So you expect the media test guys to take off the factory tires and re-tire with identical tires?

That's not going to happen.

Additionally the suspension is tuned for the factory tires. Doing so would not result in an improper review. The subtleties associated with a car's behaviour at the limit or even in daily chores would be notably affected.

Some manufacturers offer a choice of tires; there choosing like tires makes sense for a comparo.

Nick

Exactly!

reidry

This sounds very good indeed!

This seems to give more creedence to the thought that the car provided for the Sport Auto test was not at 100% during testing.

Does the article say or do we know who the driver(s) were that set the laptimes?

Ryan

MaxLTV

Tires make big difference, for sure, but there are more unequal things in the tests as well, especially on track. We don't know if they timed the first hot lap or 10th or 20th, and it matters often more than tires. Case in point - a buddy of mine has BMW 1M, and it's about as fast as M3 but starts to degrade after as few as 2 10/10 laps. Datalogs show it getting progressively slower on straights. And it's very visible. M3 starts doing the same after about 7-10 quick laps. Some cars can last 20+ laps or indefinitely without loss of engine power.

Another thing is driving style. I've seen many drivers get into a faster car but drive as if they are still in what they are used to, and not brake late enough, shift at wrong time (e.g., those who are new to pedal shifters, shift as if they are driving a manual, missing out 90% of the potential benefit), and do other things that are result of their imaginary limits, not real car abilities.

Such reviews often do not provide these details, so I take them with huge grain of salt.

Turbo S does seem to be a more complete package, if that's what you are looking for.

CAlexio

Didn't realize that the turbo had more degrees or RWS.. Why is that?

CAlexio

I didn't realize the turbo had more degrees of RWS, why is that?

sunnyr

Turbo S is bloody fast, it just shattered the Sachsenring laptime when tested by Autobild (vs R8 V10 Plus, GTR and M6 CP). And the funny thing is it did it in normal P Zeros.

Sachsenring laptimes:
1:32,51 min - Porsche 911 Turbo S
1:33,38 min - Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Black Series (semi-slicks)
1:33,51 min - Porsche 911 GT2 RS (997.2) (semi-slicks)
1:33,58 min - 9ff GTrack 480 (997.2 GT3) (semi-slicks)
1:33,61 min - McLaren MP4-12C (625 hp, semi-slicks)
1:33,69 min - McLaren MP4-12C Spider (semi-slicks)
1:33,89 min - Sportec SP750 (997 GT2) (semi-slicks)
1:34,14 min - Wiesmann GT MF5 '13
1:34,45 min - Audi R8 GT (semi-slicks)
1:34,53 min - KTM X-Bow R (semi-slicks)
1:34,69 min - Cargraphic 911 GT3 RSC 2 3.8 (997.2) (semi-slicks)
1:34,75 min - Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997.2) (semi-slicks)
1:34,76 min - TechArt 911 Turbo PDK (997.2) (semi-slicks)
1:34,79 min - Abt R8 GTR S-tronic (semi-slicks)
1:34,82 min - McLaren MP4-12C Spider
1:34,84 min - Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 (semi-slicks)
1:34,86 min - 9ff BT-2 800 (997 GT2) (semi-slicks)
1:35,01 min - Geiger-Corvette ZR1
1:35,15 min - Brömmler-Nissan GT-R Alpha 9 (R35)
1:35,19 min - Porsche 911 Carrera S PDK (991, Sport PASM)
1:35,26 min - Abt R8 GTR R-tronic
1:35,41 min - Novidem GT-RS (Nissan GT-R)
1:35,64 min - Audi R8 5.2 FSI V10 Plus S-tronic

Video of the lap - http://www.autobild.de/videos/video-...s-4422130.html

Credit - http://www.germancarforum.com/commun...an-gt-r.49860/

Mike in CA

Maybe it's the weight difference or maybe the AWD. I don't know., but the chassis tuning is obviously different. Interestingly, when counter steering under 50kph RWS is 1.5 degrees, same as the GT3. When turning in the same direction over 80kph, it's 3 degrees, which is twice as much as the GT3.