Significance of Torque Vectoring?
09-15-2013, 09:54 AM
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Significance of Torque Vectoring?
This talk about how easy the 991 GT3 is to drive, potential loss of involvement, role of driver aids, etc. has gotten me thinking more about the torque vectoring. Seems to me that this may play a large role in the car's turn in and cornering, and AFIK the torque vectoring can't be turned off (whereas PSM can). If my understanding of the role of torque vectoring is correct, I find that to be troubling step in the direction of the GT-R. And it must be acknowledged the new Vette also has torque vectoring (which I suspect can't be turned off either, but I could be wrong).
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
09-15-2013, 11:16 AM
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Because a key challenge of driving is getting the car through and out of corners quickly, and PTV seems like 'cheating'. Outside of racing, driving on the track is about having fun for nearly all of us, not about 'being the fastest', and the fun is enhanced when a car presents sensible challenges to the driver (eg, the driving technique needed for a 997).
All of this was brought home to me when I drove a '14 Cayman S PDK on track yesterday, set in Sport Plus automated mode. The car was fast and indeed easy to drive, nearly no learning curve, just get out there and go. The car was also always in the right gear, so I just listened to the blipping sounds, but otherwise ignored the shifting. Maybe driving it in manual mode would have made it more fun, but what I experienced was a bit boring compared to what I'm used to with tracking mainly a manual 997S and Cayman R. This doesn't bode well as far as tracking a 991 GT3. 997 GT3 is starting to look better (or 996 cup, etc.).
All of this was brought home to me when I drove a '14 Cayman S PDK on track yesterday, set in Sport Plus automated mode. The car was fast and indeed easy to drive, nearly no learning curve, just get out there and go. The car was also always in the right gear, so I just listened to the blipping sounds, but otherwise ignored the shifting. Maybe driving it in manual mode would have made it more fun, but what I experienced was a bit boring compared to what I'm used to with tracking mainly a manual 997S and Cayman R. This doesn't bode well as far as tracking a 991 GT3. 997 GT3 is starting to look better (or 996 cup, etc.).
09-15-2013, 11:30 AM
#5
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Its all cheating. Buy a 1970's 911 and be done with it. You can "control" it all you like. Full control. Full driver "involvement" . Forget all modern advancements. Old, simple, and slow, and by the way more dangerous. Have at it. Just not many of the rest of us want such. By the way get a manual also. Why get the 991? Why even think or research about it if all we do is complain how advanced it is?
Simple.
Simple.
09-15-2013, 11:46 AM
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In that recent interview with Walter Rohl, I thought his comments interesting. He commented multiple times and in multiple ways how the car was so easy to drive, that the only way to go off track was to steer it off track. Despite those comments, he was grinning ear to ear about the car.
When asked about his personal favorite cars, he cited his 964 RS "no ABS, no electronic aids, just me and the car" or something like that.
He, like a lot of us, are torn on the subject. I think there are two answers to this question: own the best of both worlds, a 991 GT3 and an aircooled car of your choice, or choose the point along the technology continuum where you are comfortable with the balance of technology v. driver. For many, that may be the 997 chassis.
But that's OK. To each his own.
Personally, I'll likely always have two sports cars in the garage. Just like one boat can't do it all, so I have two (though 3 would be ideal).
When asked about his personal favorite cars, he cited his 964 RS "no ABS, no electronic aids, just me and the car" or something like that.
He, like a lot of us, are torn on the subject. I think there are two answers to this question: own the best of both worlds, a 991 GT3 and an aircooled car of your choice, or choose the point along the technology continuum where you are comfortable with the balance of technology v. driver. For many, that may be the 997 chassis.
But that's OK. To each his own.
Personally, I'll likely always have two sports cars in the garage. Just like one boat can't do it all, so I have two (though 3 would be ideal).
09-15-2013, 11:50 AM
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In that recent interview with Walter Rohl, I thought his comments interesting. He commented multiple times and in multiple ways how the car was so easy to drive, that the only way to go off track was to steer it off track. Despite those comments, he was grinning ear to ear about the car.
When asked about his personal favorite cars, he cited his 964 RS "no ABS, no electronic aids, just me and the car" or something like that.
He, like a lot of us, are torn on the subject. I think there are two answers to this question: own the best of both worlds, a 991 GT3 and an aircooled car of your choice, or choose the point along the technology continuum where you are comfortable with the balance of technology v. driver. For many, that may be the 997 chassis.
But that's OK. To each his own.
Personally, I'll likely always have two sports cars in the garage. Just like one boat can't do it all, so I have two (though 3 would be ideal).
When asked about his personal favorite cars, he cited his 964 RS "no ABS, no electronic aids, just me and the car" or something like that.
He, like a lot of us, are torn on the subject. I think there are two answers to this question: own the best of both worlds, a 991 GT3 and an aircooled car of your choice, or choose the point along the technology continuum where you are comfortable with the balance of technology v. driver. For many, that may be the 997 chassis.
But that's OK. To each his own.
Personally, I'll likely always have two sports cars in the garage. Just like one boat can't do it all, so I have two (though 3 would be ideal).
I agree with 100% of what you said.
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09-15-2013, 11:51 AM
#8
Nordschleife Master
In that recent interview with Walter Rohl, I thought his comments interesting. He commented multiple times and in multiple ways how the car was so easy to drive, that the only way to go off track was to steer it off track. Despite those comments, he was grinning ear to ear about the car.
When asked about his personal favorite cars, he cited his 964 RS "no ABS, no electronic aids, just me and the car" or something like that.
He, like a lot of us, are torn on the subject. I think there are two answers to this question: own the best of both worlds, a 991 GT3 and an aircooled car of your choice, or choose the point along the technology continuum where you are comfortable with the balance of technology v. driver. For many, that may be the 997 chassis.
But that's OK. To each his own.
Personally, I'll likely always have two sports cars in the garage. Just like one boat can't do it all, so I have two (though 3 would be ideal).
When asked about his personal favorite cars, he cited his 964 RS "no ABS, no electronic aids, just me and the car" or something like that.
He, like a lot of us, are torn on the subject. I think there are two answers to this question: own the best of both worlds, a 991 GT3 and an aircooled car of your choice, or choose the point along the technology continuum where you are comfortable with the balance of technology v. driver. For many, that may be the 997 chassis.
But that's OK. To each his own.
Personally, I'll likely always have two sports cars in the garage. Just like one boat can't do it all, so I have two (though 3 would be ideal).
09-15-2013, 12:21 PM
#9
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So N + 1 + W, where W = number of kids - (how much play you get/week * Q)
Q ranges from 0.1 to 1 and is average rating of quality of play.
09-15-2013, 12:25 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
In that recent interview with Walter Rohl, I thought his comments interesting. He commented multiple times and in multiple ways how the car was so easy to drive, that the only way to go off track was to steer it off track. Despite those comments, he was grinning ear to ear about the car.
When asked about his personal favorite cars, he cited his 964 RS "no ABS, no electronic aids, just me and the car" or something like that.
He, like a lot of us, are torn on the subject. I think there are two answers to this question: own the best of both worlds, a 991 GT3 and an aircooled car of your choice, or choose the point along the technology continuum where you are comfortable with the balance of technology v. driver. For many, that may be the 997 chassis.
But that's OK. To each his own.
Personally, I'll likely always have two sports cars in the garage. Just like one boat can't do it all, so I have two (though 3 would be ideal).
When asked about his personal favorite cars, he cited his 964 RS "no ABS, no electronic aids, just me and the car" or something like that.
He, like a lot of us, are torn on the subject. I think there are two answers to this question: own the best of both worlds, a 991 GT3 and an aircooled car of your choice, or choose the point along the technology continuum where you are comfortable with the balance of technology v. driver. For many, that may be the 997 chassis.
But that's OK. To each his own.
Personally, I'll likely always have two sports cars in the garage. Just like one boat can't do it all, so I have two (though 3 would be ideal).
BTW, in a Dutch car magazine, I read an article where Walter Röhrl explains that the GT3 has one button to switch all the nannies off. For people that are confident enough, that's the way to experince the car in its most natural form. He litterally said: The 991 GT3 makes an avarage driver good, a good driver better and a very experienced driver happy.
Suzy991
09-15-2013, 12:31 PM
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Fully agree! That's exactly how it is.
BTW, in a Dutch car magazine, I read an article where Walter Röhrl explains that the GT3 has one button to switch all the nannies off. For people that are confident enough, that's the way to experince the car in its most natural form. He litterally said: The 991 GT3 makes an avarage driver good, a good driver better and a very experienced driver happy.
Suzy991
BTW, in a Dutch car magazine, I read an article where Walter Röhrl explains that the GT3 has one button to switch all the nannies off. For people that are confident enough, that's the way to experince the car in its most natural form. He litterally said: The 991 GT3 makes an avarage driver good, a good driver better and a very experienced driver happy.
Suzy991
09-15-2013, 12:46 PM
#12
Race Car
09-15-2013, 01:03 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
(the year the Porsche 911celebrated its 25th anniversary). I don't know exactly if the PTV and e-diff do switch off though... You could be right. It's indeed debateable which aids should be classified as "nannies" hahaSuzy991
09-15-2013, 02:05 PM
#14
Race Director
My Cayenne S has PTV. FWIW, in that application it can't be switched off.
Since the e-diff is an integral part of the gearbox, I'd be very surprised if it could be switched off either, although just as with a mechanical LSD, I don't know why you'd want to......
Since the e-diff is an integral part of the gearbox, I'd be very surprised if it could be switched off either, although just as with a mechanical LSD, I don't know why you'd want to......
09-15-2013, 02:23 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Have been reading that article again and I think that Walter Röhrl just means the PSM when he says that you can switch the "nannies" off.
It's always a question how a journalist interprets an answer and how he writes it down, translated to his own language.
Suzy991
It's always a question how a journalist interprets an answer and how he writes it down, translated to his own language.
Suzy991