Originally Posted by Nick

What do Ferrari, Lambo and McLaren have in common that differs from Porsche and the rest of the cars you listed?

When I owned Porsche's I track them regularly. Once I started buying Ferrari's, I did not track them even though Ferrari warranty covered track events. Ferrari owners often are former Porsche owners. THey know how to drive and track cars.

Think man think!

Originally Posted by wanna911

Ever since BMW went all automated, you hardly see them at the track much where they used to be a dominant force at most track days....

Originally Posted by wanna911

Are you not aware that you are agreeing with me?

You didn't even see fit to track your Ferrari. Because the mindset of owning a Ferrari is not the same as the mindset of owning a GT3. Same goes for Lambo and McLaren. A few brave souls will run them hard, but absolutely NOTHING LIKE THE GT3 that you will see everywhere at the track all the time........

Cannot see how this is not sinking in. Buy GT3, inspired to track, buy Ferrari, inspired to sit in garage and valet. Two totally different mindsets.

THAT is what is different about the Lambo Ferrari and Mclaren from the cars I mentioned. You do not see them at the track regularly because people aren't thinking about getting them to the track as soon as possible.

That is why what is optioned on a Lambo, Ferrari or McLaren is irrelevant to what needs to be on a 911 GT3. They are mostly bought for two different purposes, as you so kindly demonstrated yourself.

Originally Posted by Bill_C4S

Not Sad, at least certainly, not to me.

Tis part of what makes Rennlist...well entertaining...a ribald, slugfest of opinion difference. (<- koolaid?)

As long as we don't get personal...all is good.

We are afterall a passionate bunch of petrolheads....and that by my reckoning...in this day and age ain't too bad at all....

Originally Posted by frayed

'collector is on to something.

I have 4 Germans that work for me. 3 with PhD's. 1 of them 6'7", or I jokingly state, 3 meters. Have traveled quite a bit around Germany recently and met with the head legal team at BMW Munich and Beiersdorf in Hamburg. I've had a crash course in 'dealing with Germans' in 24 months. It's been fun and frustrating.

I've also had similar experiences with the Chinese, and now have a Chinese lawyer on staff.

Growing up in the US, I've learned the hard way that cultural divides play heavily in interpreting statements/behaviour.

My take on AP is that he really is an enthusiast and believes that the new PDK is the best of its kind. That doesn't mean he doesn't prefer the analogue feel of the 4.0. I've perhaps had too much vino this evening but when citing the involvement of the PDK transmission, he leaned on item such as hearing the boom of the upshifts in the black forest (or somesuch) and the 'near' sequential feel. The comments were more in a vacuum than in direct comparison to his experience in the 4.0.

Interesting that he chose more abstract comparisons than in direct relation to the king.

IMO.

Originally Posted by Nizer

Say what? BMW is one of the few manufacturers still offering manuals on their top-level cars (M-Series), which BTW account for 20-25% of sales and which they will continue to produce as long as there's demand per BMW executives.

BMW and Corvette are two most represented brands after Porsche at mixed track days I attend. Both provide the option of manuals in their top level offerings, apparently unlike Porsche going forward.....

Originally Posted by wanna911

My point is that you just dont see many of the newer bmw's at the track. Certainly not compared to the older models. BMW at one time I would say had a bigger track presence than Porsche. They have fallen well off the wagon in that regard.

Originally Posted by RR

My 2 cents.

Ever since I had my 04 gt3 I always hoped that Porsche would someday put the sequential gear box in the road car. To ME that was what would make the road car closer to the cup car.

If Porsche only offered a manual, again for this 991 model I would have been disappointed.

In short I want my gt3 road car to be/feel as close to the cup car as possible. And I think the pdk-s gets me there more than a normal manual would, and I'm glad Porsche chose that route.

Originally Posted by RR

My 2 cents.

Ever since I had my 04 gt3 I always hoped that Porsche would someday put the sequential gear box in the road car. To ME that was what would make the road car closer to the cup car.

If Porsche only offered a manual, again for this 991 model I would have been disappointed.

In short I want my gt3 road car to be/feel as close to the cup car as possible. And I think the pdk-s gets me there more than a normal manual would, and I'm glad Porsche chose that route.

Originally Posted by Nizer

Happy for you that you're getting the transmission you want but trust me it will be nothing like a Cup car. My Cup car sequential is far more challeging and engaging to drive properly than the manual in my RS. A Cup car sequential is about as far from a manual in operation and skill required as a manual is from PDK. Sorry, but this is the truth.

Originally Posted by wanna911

Are you not aware that you are agreeing with me?

You didn't even see fit to track your Ferrari. Because the mindset of owning a Ferrari is not the same as the mindset of owning a GT3. Same goes for Lambo and McLaren. A few brave souls will run them hard, but absolutely NOTHING LIKE THE GT3 that you will see everywhere at the track all the time........

Cannot see how this is not sinking in. Buy GT3, inspired to track, buy Ferrari, inspired to sit in garage and valet. Two totally different mindsets.

THAT is what is different about the Lambo Ferrari and Mclaren from the cars I mentioned. You do not see them at the track regularly because people aren't thinking about getting them to the track as soon as possible.

That is why what is optioned on a Lambo, Ferrari or McLaren is irrelevant to what needs to be on a 911 GT3. They are mostly bought for two different purposes, as you so kindly demonstrated yourself.

Originally Posted by Nick

No, I am not agreeing with you. The difference in the cost of the cars weighs heavily in determining whether to track it especially among a substantially cheaper cars. However, I would be more willing to do so if it was a Ferrari only event.

Your claim that Ferrari owners are novices and barely competent drivers is far from true. A substantial number have a wealth of experience doing track events.

Originally Posted by jumper5836

The only ones I see mostly wear full race suits flying Ferrari colors and get upset when I go by them in a Cayenne Turbo. Haven't seen a well driven Ferrari ever unless it was during a ALMS race.

Originally Posted by wanna911

By far, the most BMW's you see at track days are e30, e36, e46. The e90 e92 has a decent amount and those were a big majority manuals. I started tracking in a M. But the BMWs have gotten too fat and unreliable. The 335i was horrible on track with lots of issues. Not many even bothered with the m5 and m6 as that first paddle shift tranny was aweful for the track.

My point is that you just dont see many of the newer bmw's at the track. Certainly not compared to the older models. BMW at one time I would say had a bigger track presence than Porsche. They have fallen well off the wagon in that regard.