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I did a write up on one of the forums. I had an F12 for 4 years, ended up selling it a few months after I got the McLaren 720s. (Also have the 991 GT3 Touring, and my Daily Driver is the 992 Targa).
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So I would not tell you don't do it - just have your eyes open to what to expect.
Thanks for the detailed response; your timing is quite coincidental. I had to travel to the Ferrari dealership to look at the car so an appointment was scheduled. Prior to making the trip, I had spoken to the sales manager who made statements such as, "We'll have the car all ready to go for an extended test drive so you can really experience it." The receptionist at the door was cordial and the sales manager, while pleasant, exuded a rather salesy vibe. Despite his posing questions to tailor the experience, it became apparent he wasn't truly listening to my answers and likely had a rehearsed spiel who used on his clients. His agenda seemed to include fostering the perception that acquiring a Ferrari from them was a privilege – not quite my cup of tea. To me, a car is a car; I'm not into the elitist scene and status display, which is one reason I was considering the F12 because it flies under the radar and the average person probably thinks its a Corvette.
They had around a dozen cars, both new and used, but I was there for one specific car. Despite earlier assurances of a thorough test drive, he informed me it wasn't possible due to a priority client coming in to configure a car. Naturally, I was displeased. His attempt to salvage the situation was by making excuses and then a statement along the lines of "This is all you really need to know for now", sitting in the car and then doing a cold start and immediately shutting it off before it quieted down into idle. Unimpressed, I just gave him a look that said "Really???"
I have to say I was soured by the whole way this went down and put off by the Ferrari experience, I left. Coincidentally, there was a McLaren dealership nearby, so I popped in there and my reception was totally different. Down to earth and about the cars and what they can do, not about the status associated with ownership. Sat in and checked out a 720S, and I'm thinking it may be a good option. Did not get to drive it... it had a deposit on it already. Anyways, thoughts and experience with your 720S?
Not an F12 but I did own a 599 GTO for a while but ended up selling it and getting a GT3. As someone said above: Everyone should own V12 Ferrari at some point in their journey. I bought the 599 right (traded a Viper for it). Contacted a couple of the previous owners. Found out the second guy paid a bit under half million for it back in the day. Incredibly spec'd car. Amazon to drive especially after the engine was tuned - Enzo derived engine. I love to work on my own cars so I spent a couple of weekends replacing the valve cover gaskets and other bits and pieces. The engine sound was dreamy and the power delivery brutal. Super comfortable on the road and a horrible, non-intuitive stereo system. I sold the car to a friend of mine locally and he actually takes it to the track once in a while. I prefer the GT3 by far. But the experience of owning and driving the Ferrari is something I will never regret. The day I traded the Viper The 599 that lived under the ugly wrap The sweetest interior of any car I have ever owned 2 week valve cover job. Picking up the GT3 after selling the 599
Thanks for the detailed response; your timing is quite coincidental. I had to travel to the Ferrari dealership to look at the car so an appointment was scheduled. Prior to making the trip, I had spoken to the sales manager who made statements such as, "We'll have the car all ready to go for an extended test drive so you can really experience it." The receptionist at the door was cordial and the sales manager, while pleasant, exuded a rather salesy vibe. Despite his posing questions to tailor the experience, it became apparent he wasn't truly listening to my answers and likely had a rehearsed spiel who used on his clients. His agenda seemed to include fostering the perception that acquiring a Ferrari from them was a privilege – not quite my cup of tea. To me, a car is a car; I'm not into the elitist scene and status display, which is one reason I was considering the F12 because it flies under the radar and the average person probably thinks its a Corvette.
They had around a dozen cars, both new and used, but I was there for one specific car. Despite earlier assurances of a thorough test drive, he informed me it wasn't possible due to a priority client coming in to configure a car. Naturally, I was displeased. His attempt to salvage the situation was by making excuses and then a statement along the lines of "This is all you really need to know for now", sitting in the car and then doing a cold start and immediately shutting it off before it quieted down into idle. Unimpressed, I just gave him a look that said "Really???"
I have to say I was soured by the whole way this went down and put off by the Ferrari experience, I left. Coincidentally, there was a McLaren dealership nearby, so I popped in there and my reception was totally different. Down to earth and about the cars and what they can do, not about the status associated with ownership. Sat in and checked out a 720S, and I'm thinking it may be a good option. Did not get to drive it... it had a deposit on it already. Anyways, thoughts and experience with your 720S?
Bummer, but don't let the experience dissuade you from the brand and ownership entirely. My local Ferrari dealer is great. Crew there enjoy engaging & discussing enthusiast details.
Thanks for the detailed response; your timing is quite coincidental. I had to travel to the Ferrari dealership to look at the car so an appointment was scheduled. Prior to making the trip, I had spoken to the sales manager who made statements such as, "We'll have the car all ready to go for an extended test drive so you can really experience it." The receptionist at the door was cordial and the sales manager, while pleasant, exuded a rather salesy vibe. Despite his posing questions to tailor the experience, it became apparent he wasn't truly listening to my answers and likely had a rehearsed spiel who used on his clients. His agenda seemed to include fostering the perception that acquiring a Ferrari from them was a privilege – not quite my cup of tea. To me, a car is a car; I'm not into the elitist scene and status display, which is one reason I was considering the F12 because it flies under the radar and the average person probably thinks its a Corvette.
They had around a dozen cars, both new and used, but I was there for one specific car. Despite earlier assurances of a thorough test drive, he informed me it wasn't possible due to a priority client coming in to configure a car. Naturally, I was displeased. His attempt to salvage the situation was by making excuses and then a statement along the lines of "This is all you really need to know for now", sitting in the car and then doing a cold start and immediately shutting it off before it quieted down into idle. Unimpressed, I just gave him a look that said "Really???"
I have to say I was soured by the whole way this went down and put off by the Ferrari experience, I left. Coincidentally, there was a McLaren dealership nearby, so I popped in there and my reception was totally different. Down to earth and about the cars and what they can do, not about the status associated with ownership. Sat in and checked out a 720S, and I'm thinking it may be a good option. Did not get to drive it... it had a deposit on it already. Anyways, thoughts and experience with your 720S?
This is what I also grew a little tired of as well, not as much my Ferrari Dealers day to day attitude, but more if I didn't trade in something (for low) and buy the next version right at that phone call, I would miss out and be put "down" on the list for the next time. After 20 years of being in the exotic and Ferrari market, I grew tired of it. I still like the brand, just not how they sometimes can treat you.
Anyway - the McLaren 720s. Well, in short, I have owned it since new in early 2019 - and still have it. (I have had 2 992s in that same period). Outside my GT3 Touring (991.2) - for rarity sake. The 720S is without question the fastest, most exciting exotic I had had (including all my Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc. - I have had most modern models of each F and L car). You literally do not comprehend how fast the 720s is, and it is still faster than most new exotics produced today and it is going on 6 years old). I recently was with a buddy that has the SF90 (really wicked car btw) - knowing I have moved away from F-cars for a bit. I honestly cannot think of any car I would trade in my McLaren for right now. While I like the SF90 (and it is quicker than the 720s - which is unreal) for that much more dollars, hassle, etc. I am good sticking with the 720. I honestly do not see myself selling it anytime soon, as I do not really need anything faster - it is ridiculous enough.. And from a looks, performance, etc. I just find it hard to beat. Honestly the best exotic I have ever owned.
Here is are a few pics. This is MSO color called Volcano Red (think PTS in the porsche world) - it has to be one of the best overall car colors I have ever seen. The last photo was from the cincinnati/midwest Concourse where it won best in show from the exotic class this year. All photos are from my iPhone, not touched up or anything color wise. It goes from light to dark based on lighting.
This is what I also grew a little tired of as well, not as much my Ferrari Dealers day to day attitude, but more if I didn't trade in something (for low) and buy the next version right at that phone call, I would miss out and be put "down" on the list for the next time. After 20 years of being in the exotic and Ferrari market, I grew tired of it. I still like the brand, just not how they sometimes can treat you.
Anyway - the McLaren 720s. Well, in short, I have owned it since new in early 2019 - and still have it. (I have had 2 992s in that same period). Outside my GT3 Touring (991.2) - for rarity sake. The 720S is without question the fastest, most exciting exotic I had had (including all my Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc. - I have had most modern models of each F and L car). You literally do not comprehend how fast the 720s is, and it is still faster than most new exotics produced today and it is going on 6 years old). I recently was with a buddy that has the SF90 (really wicked car btw) - knowing I have moved away from F-cars for a bit. I honestly cannot think of any car I would trade in my McLaren for right now. While I like the SF90 (and it is quicker than the 720s - which is unreal) for that much more dollars, hassle, etc. I am good sticking with the 720. I honestly do not see myself selling it anytime soon, as I do not really need anything faster - it is ridiculous enough.. And from a looks, performance, etc. I just find it hard to beat. Honestly the best exotic I have ever owned.
Here is are a few pics. This is MSO color called Volcano Red (think PTS in the porsche world) - it has to be one of the best overall car colors I have ever seen. The last photo was from the cincinnati/midwest Concourse where it won best in show from the exotic class this year. All photos are from my iPhone, not touched up or anything color wise. It goes from light to dark based on lighting.
Great color and good to hear! Thanks for the clarity of your response...
Short answer, scratch that itch and do it. I have had many Porches over the years and my wife still has one we ordered back in 03. I got a 550 Maranello about 15 years ago and drove it for about 30,000 miles and thoroughly enjoyed it. I recently sold it as I started to have issues with parts no longer being available and replaced it with a 991.2 GT3 Touring. I am a big fan of the front engine V12 Ferrari and if I got another one it would be the F12 at this point.
As for service, the Ferrari service experience was much better than what the Porsche service experience has evolved to - it actually reminds me of what Porsche used to be like before all the new models were added and in turn the dealerships and staff grew proportionally.
I have had 3 V12's and loved them all, put tons of miles on them and did not regret it at all.
It's a great experience to be able to put huge luggage and take a road trip in a 599, F12, 812 etc. The MPG is awful but the noise is heavenly and the ride quality is decent. The heavy front engine somewhat slows down the usual over-boosted F steering.
You might break even, or lose some money, but if you can afford to risk it a bit on these type of cars the experience is great. You're a VIP anywhere you pull up to in a F12.
I'm a lifelong 911 guy but just had to once have a 12 cyl Ferrari so I bought a F12 five years ago. My experience was mixed. I loved the F12. The sound, the looks, the huge hood and the super special feel with each drive. I didn't like the nervous steering, tramlining, random electronic alerts, constant battery charging and the feel that this car was going to cost me big bucks in repairs some day.
So I sold it and bought a 991.2 touring. It suits me better. I love driving it and the manual makes the car. I know it will start every time I ask, will hold its value in most markets and the 4.0L at 9,000 r.p.m. is a pretty close second to the V12 at full chat.
What do I prefer? The head says GT3, the heart says Ferrari V12.
So, yes, go for the F12 or you will regret not doing it. Life is too short.
The warranty on 812 is $7,000/year and thats only power train. I dont know about F12 but probably similar. If you want to maintain bumper to bumper, thats $10,000/year. Plus maintenance ($2000-$4000 depending on 2 year vs annual).
I’m all about going into the detail. One of the issues 812 has is the nasty oil leak coming from intake manifold. It appears that the manifold has a defect and ferrari first tries to replace the plate, then gasket, and finally manifold. I asked a local ferrari dealer about this and was told the $7000 warranty doesnt cover it, there is no goodwill warranty, and the manifold alone is almost $20,000 to replace without any labor (around 6-8 hours).
You have to understand that we take GT3s durability and cost of ownership for granted here. How bulletproof GT3 is and the cost of fixing it does not come close to living with a $400,000 Ferrari.
V12 is amazing and 812 is on my list but I will do this being fully aware of true potential cost of ownership. It is probably more than twice as expensive as my RS in terms of running it.
As I mentioned I do think the actual running cost between porsche and ferrari are about double (give or take) - One thing I did not post above, is that if I go back to the 430 and before 360, 355, 345 (I had all of these along with a porsche) - back then I would hold them for 3-4 years usually just past warrant or maybe a year past. I also had 911s at the same time. I think the running cost was about the same on the older models as it was in those days with the 911. Since the 458 and newer, is when I started having my most trouble with Ferrari...
Oddly when VW/Audi bought Lambo - these were the most trouble free I have had in the exotic world - I would say running cost of my last few Lambos was at or below the level of Porsche.
But as long as you go in with your eyes open, then you will be fine.
Last edited by Richard_Wallace; 11-17-2023 at 08:48 AM.
The warranty on 812 is $7,000/year and thats only power train. I dont know about F12 but probably similar. If you want to maintain bumper to bumper, thats $10,000/year. Plus maintenance ($2000-$4000 depending on 2 year vs annual).
I’m all about going into the detail. One of the issues 812 has is the nasty oil leak coming from intake manifold. It appears that the manifold has a defect and ferrari first tries to replace the plate, then gasket, and finally manifold. I asked a local ferrari dealer about this and was told the $7000 warranty doesnt cover it, there is no goodwill warranty, and the manifold alone is almost $20,000 to replace without any labor (around 6-8 hours).
You have to understand that we take GT3s durability and cost of ownership for granted here. How bulletproof GT3 is and the cost of fixing it does not come close to living with a $400,000 Ferrari.
V12 is amazing and 812 is on my list but I will do this being fully aware of true potential cost of ownership. It is probably more than twice as expensive as my RS in terms of running it.
I 100% agree with you on this !
Not just the GT3, but all my Porsche's , going back to my 1st 914 and 911 back in the mid 1980's have been pretty much Gas and Go, especially our old 958 Cayenne S which we sadly regret trading in for my wife's current AMG SUV. We put 135K miles of ridiculous duty on it and the only thing that failed was the rear passenger side tail light, and it truly drove like it had 25K miles on it.
Since this past Spring , I've been agonising over whether or not to pick up a 599GTB as my neighbor had an F12 and it sounded glorious and I thought it would be a good way to celebrate turning 60.
Ultimately, I came to the realisation that I have become hopelessly OCD in the sense that I have almost no tolerance for car related issues and that the Ferrari mystique might not suit my temperament as I am spoiled/conditioned by the reliability of Porsche's in general. Not only that, I have a phenomenal relationship with my local Porsche dealership which as you all know greatly affects the ownership experience of a brand.
Regardless, the the OP....life is definitely too short , so if you have the means, get the F12 and live to tell us the tale !
Last edited by 911-140.6; 11-17-2023 at 10:08 AM.
Reason: spelling
OP - I think I responded to your post over at FChat but figured I would give my 2 cents here as well.
I own both a 991.1 GT3 (7 years) and an F12 (2 years).
As has been mentioned, the engine in the F12 dominates the entire experience. It is truly magnificent and feels like one of the last remaining vestiges that harkens back to old school Ferrari. Its massive but feels devoid of any rotational inertia in the way that it revs. The sound is clean and pure and musical in a way that doesn't make sense until you experience it. And the power is everywhere but the car can be docile and comfortable if just putting around town.
What it lacks that the GT3 has? Obviously the seating position and view out the cabin is different - In the F12 it feels like you are steering from the backseat but the car seems to turn around your knees given the front-mid layout. Also the steering is completely different - not bad in the Ferrari and probably as sportscar you can get in a GT car but it lacks the razor sharpness and tactility that I miss in my GT3 and has a bit more slop.
Ultimately you will have to ask yourself what it is you love most about driving? I think I've come to find out that I value steering feel and communication and a sporty chassis more than noise, highway cruising, and sheer speed, so if I had to pick one to keep it would be the GT3. I'm also a shorter/smaller guy and the F12 does just feel absolutely massive around me compared to the GT3 (the hood is looooong and tire placement is sometimes sketchy for me) but it does shrink around you at pace.
The F12 is my first Ferrari and I've recently been thinking that I definitely want to try out one of their mid-engine variants, maybe an F8 or Pista, as a different experience. I'm also on the younger side of V12 ownership @ 35 so hopefully have time to revisit. Regardless of what I do now, I'm sure that one day I will have something like an 812 GTS in the garage because that engine is just so freaking good.
Last edited by strettyend; 11-17-2023 at 12:24 PM.
This is what I also grew a little tired of as well, not as much my Ferrari Dealers day to day attitude, but more if I didn't trade in something (for low) and buy the next version right at that phone call, I would miss out and be put "down" on the list for the next time. After 20 years of being in the exotic and Ferrari market, I grew tired of it. I still like the brand, just not how they sometimes can treat you.
Anyway - the McLaren 720s. ........ I just find it hard to beat. Honestly the best exotic I have ever owned.
Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
I have had 3 V12's and loved them all, put tons of miles on them and did not regret it at all.
It's a great experience to be able to put huge luggage and take a road trip in a 599, F12, 812 etc. The MPG is awful but the noise is heavenly and the ride quality is decent. The heavy front engine somewhat slows down the usual over-boosted F steering.
You might break even, or lose some money, but if you can afford to risk it a bit on these type of cars the experience is great. You're a VIP anywhere you pull up to in a F12.
Just an update... I know this is a shift and I can only blame you guys for it, but I'm interested in the 720S Spider now and am arranging to look at one and take it for a proper spin.
Why the change? Well I really hadn't considered the McLaren because I figured it would drive me nuts with problems, etc., but I'm hearing that's not so much the case anymore. I also figured just harsh of a ride (which is one reason I'm looking to move the GT3 on... want to do more road trips with the wife and she doesn't like it so much and she doesn't care for the FGT either... we have Panamera 4S we usually take, but I want something with a little more attitude). I'm hearing the "comfort mode" with the adjustable heated seats could be a good option for longer trips in a 720S..
So possibly shifting gears here.... any input much appreciated as I go down this road....
Just an update... I know this is a shift and I can only blame you guys for it, but I'm interested in the 720S Spider now and am arranging to look at one and take it for a proper spin.
Why the change? Well I really hadn't considered the McLaren because I figured it would drive me nuts with problems, etc., but I'm hearing that's not so much the case anymore. I also figured just harsh of a ride (which is one reason I'm looking to move the GT3 on... want to do more road trips with the wife and she doesn't like it so much and she doesn't care for the FGT either... we have Panamera 4S we usually take, but I want something with a little more attitude). I'm hearing the "comfort mode" with the adjustable heated seats could be a good option for longer trips in a 720S..
So possibly shifting gears here.... any input much appreciated as I go down this road....
I have been down this road and it didnt work out. If sound is important to you, I wouldnt consider 720S. It sounds very industrial and is probably the polar opposite of F12. If V12 is 10/10, GT3 flat 6 is 9/10, 720S to me is 3/10. I think my cayenne gts is a 6/10. Its purely subjective of course.
And it buzzes and rattles a lot and the 3 test drives I did on 3 different cars all had electrical gremlins.
11-13-2023, 03:21 PM
