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when I say garage queen, I don’t mean it just sits in there for looks primarily, I probably could’ve chosen a different description, what I meant was I don’t drive the car more than 3000 miles per year. And it looks like it has never left the show room floor currently with 15 k miles and it’s in perfect condition both interior and exterior without a single blemish. so I just don’t want to rack up mileage on the car which obviously leads to some wear and tear just like any other car, the more mileage the more blemishes that appear. I would like to keep the car as close to perfect mint condition versus putting a ton of miles on it and devalue the car by putting wear and tear on everything else just to “hopefully” replace the motor under warranty . I guess it’s a catch 22 situation. I don’t want to drive the car around at 9K RPMs constantly just to get the engine to fail because in my opinion that can’t be good on the PDK and other components of the car outside of the just the fingers and lobes covered with this warranty. Anyway, moving forward I will drive the car as it was designed to be driven and from reading everybody’s suggestions and comments on here which have been very helpful and I appreciate all of you guys that responded to my post, I’ve come to the conclusion that if the motor goes by November 2024, great I get a G6 , if it does not, then I guess I’m putting aside a good chunk of change and I will do the performance development solution that Neil has described the day warranty ends. Like I said it on my OP. I really truly plan on keeping this car for good I think it is one of the best looking and will be forever of the last naturally aspirated GT cars. I would never find this car again in this color with all the options this car has without a single mark on it. It took me two years to find this car before I bought it from his original owner who was 80 years old. Lol. So I don’t want to change the cars current condition just to chase an engine warranty. I just think Porsche should be embarrassed if a huge percentage of us that own this generation have to in the future pay to get the performance development re-design completed due to a proven engineering flaw on their part. Think about it if your Porsche, a bunch of your core driving enthusiasts that bought your GT series car for the reasons that it was designed to be driven for are having to take their cars to a different company outside of Porsche that had to re-design and re-engineer their engineers motor. I have been a huge Porsche customer all my life and I’ve bought many many Porsches and at the end of the day, if this motor goes prematurely and it’s not covered by Porsche, this will be the last Porsche that I buy and they will lose a good long time customer that has bought many Porsches over the years. I just think it’s a shame for Porsche to lose a customer and Porsche ambassador like myself as an example because they don’t do the right thing and fix what should’ve been a recall in the first place and not just a warranty to throw on that they knew was very calculated that a huge percentage of people wouldn’t hit the mileage necessary to throw a misfire and CEL within the timeframe that they gave the warranty for! Yes I know some of you have gotten the motor replaced, but there is a huge wave coming over 3 years where this issue is going to blow up and surface as these cars start hitting 30,40, 50,000 miles and it will be a way bigger issue percentage wise than the IMS bearing failures or bore scoring in other models in previous years. And the IMS failure really was not many cars when you do the math. Mark my words, as these cars get more and more mileage on them it’s going to be a MUCH higher percentage of cars that run into this issue with the finger followers . All of these motors will fail due to this specific engineering flaw it’s just a matter of when. And it will be premature for a huge percentage when these cars start hitting the 40 to 60,000 mile range. And these aren’t words from me, these are words from two very good long time certified Porsche technicians in my area that work on these GT cars all the time.
I've daily drove a Ferrari Testarossa, BB512i and 348 Spider over a 20 year span, putting over 100k miles on each of them. Sure they all got a few rock chips and seat wear, but I go for smiles per mile.
Keep in mind each dealer will have varying pricing and pkg options.
Warranty was purchased in CA, and looking back I should have selected the $250 deductible to save several hundred bucks, but I have piece-of-mind till 2028 or 101K miles, yay!
Three months after warranty purchase car threw that 'golden CeL' and new G6 was installed under the factory warranty, and did not use Safe-Guard: accessoriesandservices
Also recently went with Porsche Auto Insurance (now avail in CA) and very pleased to have agreed upon total loss value, all repairs using only OEM Porsche parts, and rates based upon actual mileage driven per annum.
There is other various 'perks' as well.
How can this even be purchased now? I don't see how any 991.1 can qualify now: (From the website) "Available on new, pre-owned, and Certified Pre-Owned Porsche vehicles at the time of purchase or lease. Also available after vehicle purchase or lease if the vehicle is still covered under the manufacturers new vehicle limited warranty." No 991.1 would be under the new vehicle limited warranty and therefore you wouldn't be able to purchase extended coverage. Am I missing something?
when I say garage queen, I don’t mean it just sits in there for looks primarily, I probably could’ve chosen a different description, what I meant was I don’t drive the car more than 3000 miles per year. And it looks like it has never left the show room floor currently with 15 k miles and it’s in perfect condition both interior and exterior without a single blemish. so I just don’t want to rack up mileage on the car which obviously leads to some wear and tear just like any other car, the more mileage the more blemishes that appear. I would like to keep the car as close to perfect mint condition versus putting a ton of miles on it and devalue the car by putting wear and tear on everything else just to “hopefully” replace the motor under warranty . I guess it’s a catch 22 situation. I don’t want to drive the car around at 9K RPMs constantly just to get the engine to fail because in my opinion that can’t be good on the PDK and other components of the car outside of the just the fingers and lobes covered with this warranty. Anyway, moving forward I will drive the car as it was designed to be driven and from reading everybody’s suggestions and comments on here which have been very helpful and I appreciate all of you guys that responded to my post, I’ve come to the conclusion that if the motor goes by November 2024, great I get a G6 , if it does not, then I guess I’m putting aside a good chunk of change and I will do the performance development solution that Neil has described the day warranty ends. Like I said it on my OP. I really truly plan on keeping this car for good I think it is one of the best looking and will be forever of the last naturally aspirated GT cars. I would never find this car again in this color with all the options this car has without a single mark on it. It took me two years to find this car before I bought it from his original owner who was 80 years old. Lol. So I don’t want to change the cars current condition just to chase an engine warranty. I just think Porsche should be embarrassed if a huge percentage of us that own this generation have to in the future pay to get the performance development re-design completed due to a proven engineering flaw on their part. Think about it if your Porsche, a bunch of your core driving enthusiasts that bought your GT series car for the reasons that it was designed to be driven for are having to take their cars to a different company outside of Porsche that had to re-design and re-engineer their engineers motor. I have been a huge Porsche customer all my life and I’ve bought many many Porsches and at the end of the day, if this motor goes prematurely and it’s not covered by Porsche, this will be the last Porsche that I buy and they will lose a good long time customer that has bought many Porsches over the years. I just think it’s a shame for Porsche to lose a customer and Porsche ambassador like myself as an example because they don’t do the right thing and fix what should’ve been a recall in the first place and not just a warranty to throw on that they knew was very calculated that a huge percentage of people wouldn’t hit the mileage necessary to throw a misfire and CEL within the timeframe that they gave the warranty for! Yes I know some of you have gotten the motor replaced, but there is a huge wave coming over 3 years where this issue is going to blow up and surface as these cars start hitting 30,40, 50,000 miles and it will be a way bigger issue percentage wise than the IMS bearing failures or bore scoring in other models in previous years. And the IMS failure really was not many cars when you do the math. Mark my words, as these cars get more and more mileage on them it’s going to be a MUCH higher percentage of cars that run into this issue with the finger followers . All of these motors will fail due to this specific engineering flaw it’s just a matter of when. And it will be premature for a huge percentage when these cars start hitting the 40 to 60,000 mile range. And these aren’t words from me, these are words from two very good long time certified Porsche technicians in my area that work on these GT cars all the time.
Sorry, I still think it’s kind of funny that you’re talking about Porsche losing you as a customer for not doing the right thing when you bought what was already a well documented ticking time bomb in 2020. At some point, it’s a case of caveat emptor and I’m not sure why you’d expect Porsche to grant another warranty extension after the initial 10 year bump. Anyone could have told you there was a 99% chance of that not happening. Just sell the car before values tank on them post warranty expiration.
Is there any good data on the failure rate of these engines?
My first engine failed at around 30k miles, a lot of them track miles. Second engine failed after only about 8k miles. Third engine had 5k miles on it when traded in. Transmission also failed at around 40k miles, had to pay about $19k to replace it.
My personal view I would sale the car, they were a good buy with the security of the 10 year free engine if it exploded. Minus the 10 year warranty why would a buyer take the risk knowing the risk of catastrophic failure minus a smoking hot deal to take the risk. I get the poster loves the spec, but having the financial concern of failure for a car parked the majority of the time and will only decline in value due to the engine history.
I have often been asked the very same question. In all honestly, I cannot say for sure why. I do have theory however. We have a proven solution that changed the fingers and supplied them with oil so maybe my opinion is correct.
It all starts with the steel the fingers are made from. All steel when made has inclusions. Some steels have more than others. Forged parts or parts made from billet steel will all have some inclusions in them. When parts are made either by forging or machined, there is no real way of telling where any inclusions may be. Parts can be X-rayed but in production, they are not going to spend the money to check. No OE will do that.
Now add to this the lack of oil to remove the heat generated by two heavily loaded parts in sliding contact with one another and you are asking for the top surface to break down. If there are any inclusions just under the surface, that surface will be destroyed quickly. This nothing uncommon in engines. The poor design is though.
This could have been told to customers at the beginning. The same or similar mod we did could have easily been done by Porsche as well. Its a cost verses risk solution and that decision is all accounting and nothing about engineering.
Our wheel house and DNA is about fixing problems and design. Its not for all. Some will sell, some will keep and hope for the best. If its required and wanted, we have a proven modification and will be available to anyone who wants it. What may become the norm, maybe added modifications making the engines larger with more performance along with this upgrade. We have this done as well.
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After seeing more threads and your responses I would sell. You’ll likely maximize how much you can get today. It’s a mint car, 15k, and a lot of the desirable options. It’s more likely that these cars drop in value post warranty due to the well documented issue than Porsche coming in and adding additional terms. It’s unfortunate for such a great car this exists but it is what it is. I would guess these will drop correlated to how much the ave fix is. Maybe those with a more recent swap, e.g., G6, will have additional value. What will be really telling is to see if any Porsche dealers still CPO these cars after the 10 years have expired. If they do, obviously some value there for a buyer. If not, it’s clear on the risk tolerance for them. I still stand by that if I were to keep one, I would have it inspected before the warranty expires. For an example like yours I would be willing to invest that amount. Likewise, if you were selling post warranty I would require the inspection as buyer. Or, expect the price reflects the unknown. There will always be a buyer for these cars, the only change will be the price of admission. Good luck.
No, crazy is spending nearly $300K for a 992 GT3. What you are proposing is merely unwise.
I'm joking in both cases. Buying a coupe is crazy - what we do around sports cars is crazy. Buying an F engined 991 GT3 is an elevated degree of crazy maybe but still falls into the same category of crazy as all of these other car related activities.
to the intent of your question. I paid a little extra for a G6 example. I really like the PDK and the design of the 991.1 and missed the window when I could justify paying the price for a 991.2. If I had it to do over again I should have purchased a 991.2 when you could get them around $150K but I missed my chance - because I paid almost that for a 991.1 GT3. But then I completely love the car more than any I have owned and have already had some epic experiences driving it.
So, it's not as crazy if you love the car and can stomach a very expensive repair in 8 months, it's a risk - if you can afford that you can also probably afford a 991.2 GT3 or a GT4 or a GTS or a turbo or something somewhat less likely to be a problem and slightly less crazy. Yes, it's crazy.
Last edited by 74goldtarga; 07-02-2023 at 12:17 AM.
Its a cost verses risk solution and that decision is all accounting and nothing about engineering.
If so, they would have introduced the solid design earlier. The G6 / MA176 valvetrain is now way cheaper than the .2 design or your solution (if they would have made that in series). They had other reasons to stick with the original design but optimize it and add **** expensive coating. Lets hope they are confident that the issue is fixed with the Optimizations they did from 2016. Good news is, that we have not seen a single G6 or late-RS engine with the FF problem to date. The inklusions should be no issue anymore as they are covered by DLC now also o the cams.
Is the head you posted one of the latest ones? Think they have also added oil sprayers...
Well said. One can buy some pretty nice motor and car upgrades with that 100K ADM $ that seems to be getting tacked onto every new Porsche GT car. A modified 991.1 has turned 1:31s at Laguna. I just watch that vid every time I think I need the latest / greatest.
No, crazy is spending nearly $300K for a 992 GT3. What you are proposing is merely unwise.
I'm joking in both cases. Buying a coupe is crazy - what we do around sports cars is crazy. Buying an F engined 991 GT3 is an elevated degree of crazy maybe but still falls into the same category of crazy as all of these other car related activities.
to the intent of your question. I paid a little extra for a G6 example. I really like the PDK and the design of the 991.1 and missed the window when I could justify paying the price for a 991.2. If I had it to do over again I should have purchased a 991.2 when you could get them around $150K but I missed my chance - because I paid almost that for a 991.1 GT3. But then I completely love the car more than any I have owned and have already had some epic experiences driving it.
So, it's not as crazy if you love the car and can stomach a very expensive repair in 8 months, it's a risk - if you can afford that you can also probably afford a 991.2 GT3 or a GT4 or a GTS or a turbo or something somewhat less likely to be a problem and slightly less crazy. Yes, it's crazy.
Thanks for your thoughts. It's kind of what I was thinking. If I could afford a 991.2 I'd prob do it, but guess I may have to settle for a Turbo S, maybe. poor me.
Thanks for your thoughts. It's kind of what I was thinking. If I could afford a 991.2 I'd prob do it, but guess I may have to settle for a Turbo S, maybe. poor me.
yes you have this right. When you engineer and produce a car that costs $150-$200,000 and you have a proven factual 100% engineering flaw, I believe that all of these motors should have been replaced from the start. It’s a flaw , and that’s on them. They threw the 10 year / 120 K mile warranty on it because they knew that it was a ratios game and it would cost less than replacing every motor. If there was not a 100% factual proven engineering flaw with the finger follower and cam lobes, then NO, that would be completely unrealistic to expect an automotive company to warranty a motor for 30 years, but there IS! just replace it now with the fix that you came up with in the G6. If you can provide the documentation that the car has been maintained, serviced properly , and no over rev range two or three’s on ecu readout, then yes that is absolutely what I’m saying!
But you purchased it in 2020 knowing this. You might have a valid point if you were an original owner, but you bought a known flawed six year old car in 2020 with full knowledge of the warranty terms. I have sympathy for your health issues, but your hand wringing over the car is your own doing. Expecting 40 years of engine warranty is absurd.
But you purchased it in 2020 knowing this. You might have a valid point if you were an original owner, but you bought a known flawed six year old car in 2020 with full knowledge of the warranty terms. I have sympathy for your health issues, but your hand wringing over the car is your own doing. Expecting 40 years of engine warranty is absurd.
I think he has the better argument. If Porsche asserts there’s no design flaw and is confident about that, the engine should have a 50k mile warranty with no limitation on years, and if they replace the engine, the replacement should have the same warranty.
After my second engine failed at only 8k miles, the third engine having only 5k miles, warranty on that engine ending in 1.5 years, no sign of the warranty being extended further, and very high cost to replace the engine, I was motivated to trade in the car. A shame, because, other than the engine concern, it’s a great car.
07-01-2023, 10:41 AM
