sdwracing

Hi all,

I'm sure this is covered before I didn’t find the info I’m looking for.

I have a 991.2 GT3RS with the factory PCCB’s. I’ve tried the Manthey Racing pads and they lasted 5 days and literally fell apart when I removed them. (Photos below for anyone interested)

What’s the go to pad for track days where drivers are pushing on whilst using the oem PCCB and oem calliper?

I also have fitted braided lines with endless brake fluid.

thanks.

CarManDSL

My OEM pads with PCCB's on .2 3RS, look almost as bad though not disintegrating after a few track days.
I felt the OEM pads with PCCB's sucked, and the OEM steels on my 991S with OEM pads were leaps and bounds better in feel and bite. I complained to dealer but everyone looks at me with a blank face, like I'm an idiot.

I understand that Pagid RSC1 are the go to pads for PCCB's, but not much else as the PCCB surface can deteriorate quickly with harsher pads

I'm now running RSC1 with ST CCB's and are way better on road and track.

RDCR

RSC1s for me as well with OEM rotors. Not a lot of experience yet overall. I replaced the OEM pads both F&R when they got down to 5mm after 6 days, looks like you went past that in much less time.

Maxi_z

I did not use the PCCB on track and I ll replace them with PFC steel brakes for track use

I tought about using the Manthey pads but the PCCB rotor replacement is just too expensive if doing a lot of track and if you really want carbon ceramic maybe it s better to get surface transforms rotors

Even with steel brakes the pagid pads could do something similar as yours and start to crack and eventually loose pieces when you remove them

They are for sure excellent pads but probably they do that if the initial bedding and the surface transfer was not done properly ( and It s not that easy to get it right ) as somehow the material of the pads should have some initial progressive heating and " baking " and then shoud coold down completely

to make it simple ( but of course read the correct procedure on pagid website )

Maybe also some specific conditions can make the pad make these cracks

Another thing to consider is that with carbo ceramic brakes if you use a pad on track that is made mostly for street use ( as maybe the oem pads ) it could then be out of it s ideal temperature range and in fact be worst for disc wear compared to a more agressive but track specific pad

Not sure abiut PCCB but on other cars with older carbo ceramic brakes I used some pagid RSC1 but was not really impressed they were really smilar to OEM pads but some were using Pagid RSL29 and they were really good

I imagine that manthey spec pads are good but they are also road legal so I think they could be something in between the RSC1 and RSL29 but probably the RSL29 is more adequate on track use

Of course the best thing is to ask pagid or some brake specialist reseller if the Pagid RSL29 are ok to use with PCCB as it could be an expensive mistake if the disc wear is too fast

There is a pagid and surface transforms dealer in Europe called Mosa Frein that could maybe let you know what pagid pads can work well with PCCB but depending on what you want to do with the car and what you want to spend you could maybe just replace the PCCB with a set of PCCB replacement PFC steel brakes or a set of surface transforms or a set of complete ap racing / essex steel brakes

Jason @ Paragon Products

Prior to the introduction of the RSC line we did have customers...even some Porsche dealerships order RSL29 to use on PCCB. Surface Transforms seems to prefer RSL1 on their discs.

Hinz Motorsport

Pagid RSC3 would be my recommendation for track use.
Shape 4927 Front - $605.81
Shape 4925 Rear - $545.23
Contact for best pricing.

driIve

How's the wear on the oem PCCB rotors compare to stock?

sdwracing

In between writing this I’ve spoken to a few people. This is the result of Pagid RSC3 on oem discs.

Maxi_z

While I was going to say that it s probably better in any case to not keep the oem PCCB for real track use because of their replacement cost , looking at the above picture and without a specific explanation I would say that the PCCB rotors are

probably that much damaged because the RSC3 brake pads were completely worn and they kept them on until the metal came in contact with the rotors and not dependent on the type of pad material

Without more specific information I would think that the RSL29 could be the best pad to use on track with PCCB

Many are using RSL1 pads with surface transforms but some surface transform dealer told me that he would mostly recomment RSL29 as the RSL1 might be a little to agressive even for the surface transform rotors and wear them faster

I don t know at all the compound used on Manthey racing pads but even if it s probably better than standard and Manthey and pagid know what they are doing , it s also a pad that is road legal and maibe also more focused for the nurburgring that is not as

demanding on brakes compared to other normal tracks so probably they are a very good choice for fast road and nurburgring but not as good as RSL29 for specific track use

Hinz Motorsport

I am weary as the particular example shown above suggests that those RSC3 pads were used past the recommended minimum with the PCCBs. This puts extra stress on the rotors, calipers, and the pads themselves via heat which accelerates wear. PCCB discs do have a temperature threshold, and once it is exceeded, they begin to break down rather quickly. If this threshold is never exceeded, they basically last forever. That's why the newer street-only-driven cars w/PCCB never need the rotors replaced (excluding outside factors, damage, rocks, etc.). We also don't know how old/how many track miles were on the discs prior to the owner installing the RSC3 compound.

That said, the RSC3 compound is Pagid's most aggressive offering designed for carbon rotors. I'm not sure how hard the OP really is on their brakes, but if that is of a concern, you could certainly try the RSC1 compound first, or maybe even the RSC2 if they can get their hands on a set. The best solution for PCCB or other carbon discs i.e. (ST rotors) is not only finding the right compound but being able to run the absolute thickest pad you can. It basically acts as a heat sink for the discs, calipers, and the pads themselves. The trouble is we are limited to the stock caliper design of 18 or so mm, which is really like 15mm + the backing plate.

The RSC1 will be the most mild-mannered and street-friendly. The wick is turned up as you go from RSC1 to RSC2 to RSC3 etc...
If you are most concerned about rotor wear, then the RSC1 is the better choice. These have a lower temperature threshold, but I haven't heard of anyone melting a set of these. If someone has a different experience I would like to know for future reference.

@driIve Regarding wear, it is almost always going to be directly related to how aggressive the pad is. Obviously, there are exceptions and a host of variables. But in general, the more bite a pad has, the faster it will wear (think R-comp vs 300TW tire).

If you don't care about noise or dust, go ahead and try the RS29, it will work too. The RSL1 as others have stated can also be used, but it too is quite aggressive (~RSC3). It will dust/make noise and be hard on the brakes. Is it harder than the RSC3? Not sure I've seen a direct comparison on PCCBs between the RSC3 and RSL1, but I would imagine they are fairly close.

This also makes a strong argument for running ST rotors, as they are certainly much more durable and can accept a broader range of pads without worry. Happy to get into that as well.

Maxi_z

In my opinion this is all correct

The RSC1 is really a not too agressive and street friendly pad as the OEM ones and if you want aggrsive pads for track use as the RSL1 or RSC3 there could be some faster rotor wear of course

As I already mentioned the only situation that could maybe also not be good for the rotors is using in a really aggressive way on track pads that are not made for that use

I think that the RSL29 is probably one of the best pads to use with CCM brakes on track but for sure it would be interesting to how the manthey pad material compares to other pagid pads ( and if their material is the same or not between their CCM and Steel pad version )

and it would be also interesting to compare RSC2 to RSL29 and RSC3 to RSL1 in detail when used on carbon ceramic brakes

FourT6and2

I've been using OEM pads without problems. Although I'm not exactly a pro driver.

RDCR

My non scientific, seat of the pants take: The RSC1s have a little less initial bite vs OEM (a good thing) and provide better feedback under hard braking with overall stopping power about the same. This is all based on braking into turn 2 at Laguna during my first trackday using the RSC1. I'll take rotor life over a more aggressive pad.

driIve

How many track days on your PCCB and how many pad changes? Have you weighted the OEM rotors to check wear?

Taffy66

You echo my thoughts on brake pads. I'm getting ready to replace the brake pads on my 2019 RS WP fitted with PCCBs and OEM pads. Absolutely not willing to increase wear on the PCCBs in the quest for slightly better track use. I was just going to replace with another set of OEM pads but really wanted to try the Manthey pads but not sure how abrasive they are. I'm very interested in the least abrasive Pagid RSC 1 and interested in how they compare to both OEM and Manthey pads.
The pads need to be compatible with public road use as I live a long way from all tracks. How do the RSC 1 handle heat compared to OEM ? I have been happy with OEM until this year but I'm doing more track days this year and as a result getting a lot faster so debating on a more suitable pad without compromising road use and wear on rotors.