Disappointed in GT3 Touring - Can't Double Clutch Rev Match!!
06-23-2022, 03:29 AM
#46
GT3 player par excellence
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here Is my 2 cents.
1. auto blip works perfect, but boring. I don't use it. and I do not understand why anyone would. if u need it, just get PDK
2. manual blip as in heel and toe is perfect. if you can't do it, tis' driver issue not the car.
3. true double clutching.... it's lost art. I did that when I had British non synchromesh cars. but any car with synchromesh, it's not needed and no pro driver would do it either. it WILL NOT reduce clutch wear. I don't do it anymore. but I can see it as disappointment if you insist on doing this technique.
4. I have WING not touring. so I do not know if touring behave the same way as my wing.
1. auto blip works perfect, but boring. I don't use it. and I do not understand why anyone would. if u need it, just get PDK
2. manual blip as in heel and toe is perfect. if you can't do it, tis' driver issue not the car.
3. true double clutching.... it's lost art. I did that when I had British non synchromesh cars. but any car with synchromesh, it's not needed and no pro driver would do it either. it WILL NOT reduce clutch wear. I don't do it anymore. but I can see it as disappointment if you insist on doing this technique.
4. I have WING not touring. so I do not know if touring behave the same way as my wing.
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06-23-2022, 03:31 AM
#47
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I had a 993 turbo wiht worn or perhaps DEAD synchro. if I blipped and matched rev, it will go smooth. I do not have to release clutch when in neutral the only modern car I have to do it is 997 cup car with sequential.
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06-23-2022, 03:50 AM
#48
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Thank you all for the great insights, much appreciated and really a testament to the RL community.
I have to start thinking of this as more of a feature than a drawback, it's likely related to the flat foot shift capability... which come to think of it is not compatible with traditional double clutching. I haven't tried it, had it on my Chevy ZL1 and SS and also didn't use it for the 3 months I owned those fun beasts.
And yes, when the clutch is in, manual rev matching is possible but as pointed out, it's not true double clutch rev matching because it doesn't spin up the drive shaft, just the engine revs, and that ok presumably because of the modern synchros.
I have to start thinking of this as more of a feature than a drawback, it's likely related to the flat foot shift capability... which come to think of it is not compatible with traditional double clutching. I haven't tried it, had it on my Chevy ZL1 and SS and also didn't use it for the 3 months I owned those fun beasts.
And yes, when the clutch is in, manual rev matching is possible but as pointed out, it's not true double clutch rev matching because it doesn't spin up the drive shaft, just the engine revs, and that ok presumably because of the modern synchros.
06-23-2022, 11:55 AM
#49
Race Director
Try the flat foot. You can do it at any throttle setting, even super light acceleration.. but it doesn't make as much sense there.
But if you are on track or just wanting to accelerate very hard and smoothly, it's really impressive.
After reading this thread, I'm going to go find a manual car to practice double clutching.. it actually sounds like fun.
But if you are on track or just wanting to accelerate very hard and smoothly, it's really impressive.
After reading this thread, I'm going to go find a manual car to practice double clutching.. it actually sounds like fun.
06-23-2022, 01:16 PM
#50
Racer
I haven’t driven a Touring, but my manual 2018 automatically rev matches and will support a “flat shift.”
There’s zero reason to double clutch a modern gearbox, other than it has bad synchros and you’re limping it along.
i double clutched my air-cooled 915 box when a couple of synchros were shot before I had it rebuilt. Now I’ll do it for fun but it’s not necessary.
There’s zero reason to double clutch a modern gearbox, other than it has bad synchros and you’re limping it along.
i double clutched my air-cooled 915 box when a couple of synchros were shot before I had it rebuilt. Now I’ll do it for fun but it’s not necessary.
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06-23-2022, 08:06 PM
#51
This thread made me rethink why I switched over to double clutch shifting since I’ve been reflexively doing it the last several years. Today, I made sure to intentionally drive my 981 gts with typical single clutch heel toe. I realized that with the double clutch, to compensate for the rev drop between clutch depressions, I have to blip more to compensate, and that makes the car really bark. Also, the rapid foot action matches the increased aggression the sound. When I drove it “normal” today, car felt too tame, and I felt a bit restless.
So, any benefit to my drivetrain may be in my head, but it definitely sounds great and is a hoot! And it’s a shame it can’t be done in the gt3, because with the fast revs and sound it would be awesome. I’m sure some whiz can program the neutral limiter out if there is demand, but it does not sound like there will be…
So, any benefit to my drivetrain may be in my head, but it definitely sounds great and is a hoot! And it’s a shame it can’t be done in the gt3, because with the fast revs and sound it would be awesome. I’m sure some whiz can program the neutral limiter out if there is demand, but it does not sound like there will be…
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06-23-2022, 09:45 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
To try to answer your question, I would say that I buy a certain transmission, a manual, but I'm happy for it to be as refined as possible.
Just for kicks, here is a video of a Porsche I drove, a 962-derived Koenig c62, with possibly the hardest ever to use manual transmission.. it was totally recalcitrant, shifting into first required first shifting into second, impossible to find gears, super long 200mph ratios with a power clutch function button necessary because the clutch was so stiff as it was made to handle 1000 turbocharged horsepower in lemans trim...
https://youtu.be/b1daVRV5YWY
I edited out the parts where I really struggled, but you can tell already at the beginning how tough this was.
So, Do I prefer this beast of a 6-speed it because it's more raw and unrefined? Hell no!!! It's a crazy experience and fun to say I did it, but I want no part of it. Modern is better, and I appreciate even more my buttery smooth 6-speed in my gt3 with all kinds of great synchros, rev match function, and flat up shift.
Does that mean I want a Pdk? No... I just want the best possible manual transmission because I've tried the very worst Porsche manual, both on road and on track, and I want the best perfoming one. That DOESNT mean it is less engaging though.
Hopefully my logic doesn't have too many holes in it, but I love where the convo is going and would like to understand what I'm missing.
Just for kicks, here is a video of a Porsche I drove, a 962-derived Koenig c62, with possibly the hardest ever to use manual transmission.. it was totally recalcitrant, shifting into first required first shifting into second, impossible to find gears, super long 200mph ratios with a power clutch function button necessary because the clutch was so stiff as it was made to handle 1000 turbocharged horsepower in lemans trim...
https://youtu.be/b1daVRV5YWY
I edited out the parts where I really struggled, but you can tell already at the beginning how tough this was.
So, Do I prefer this beast of a 6-speed it because it's more raw and unrefined? Hell no!!! It's a crazy experience and fun to say I did it, but I want no part of it. Modern is better, and I appreciate even more my buttery smooth 6-speed in my gt3 with all kinds of great synchros, rev match function, and flat up shift.
Does that mean I want a Pdk? No... I just want the best possible manual transmission because I've tried the very worst Porsche manual, both on road and on track, and I want the best perfoming one. That DOESNT mean it is less engaging though.
Hopefully my logic doesn't have too many holes in it, but I love where the convo is going and would like to understand what I'm missing.
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06-23-2022, 11:45 PM
#56
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Last edited by catdog2; 06-23-2022 at 11:59 PM.
06-24-2022, 02:00 AM
#57
Race Director
Originally Posted by RudyP
...Is that the Issimi car?
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06-24-2022, 06:33 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
@catdog2 , you must take into consideration that the 718 manual is an actual manual gearbox, while the 911 manual has actually been a PDK with extra hardware (MECOSA) since the 991. The accompanying software must never have been written with your downshifting style in mind.
06-24-2022, 10:51 PM
#60
Race Director
Originally Posted by RudyP
Wow. Very cool. Are you selling it though them or bought it from them?
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