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And the structural reinforcement to support the bracket?.. Otherwise it is not to original manufacturing standards. I believe some (unavailable) structural plates have to be welded in, and these were omitted for the US market? If the brackets are an aftermarket solution, they are not to original manufacturing standard and may not have been subjected to "rigorous" OEM safety standards in the event of the unthinkable rollover. If Manthey provided, what was their TUV testing and are they approved for the US market?
Here are a couple pics of the MR brackets. I do not know what MR's testing Q/A process was for them and as this bar was not installed by the factory and sold in a new car in the U.S., all these parts are considered owner modifications and and thus do not fall under the FDOT roll bar regulations against sells in new cars nor roll over testing. I will say the MR brackets are quite robust and are bolted in on two different planes using four bolt locations, I did not weigh them but they are not light and look like they would do the job and to my engineers eye might very well spread the torque over a larger area than the factory SC setup. As MR is owned by Porsche and obviously have some pretty well respected motorsport credentials I feel confident that this build is structurally sound. Actually, after looking at the brackets my only real concern was the bolts but after I did some quick calculations of the bolt sizes/grade, the tensile strength numbers look more than nominal to me. I am very happy with the build. FYI, both Porsche and Manthey Racing have noted that the factory SC bars, either titanium or metal alloy are not FIA approved roll cages.
Here are a couple pics of the MR brackets. I do not know what MR's testing Q/A process was for them and as this bar was not installed by the factory and sold in a new car in the U.S., all these parts are considered owner modifications and and thus do not fall under the FDOT roll bar regulations against sells in new cars nor roll over testing. I will say the MR brackets are quite robust and are bolted in on two different planes using four bolt locations, I did not weigh them but they are not light and look like they would do the job and to my engineers eye might very well spread the torque over a larger area than the factory SC setup. As MR is owned by Porsche and obviously have some pretty well respected motorsport credentials I feel confident that this build is structurally sound. Actually, after looking at the brackets my only real concern was the bolts but after I did some quick calculations of the bolt sizes/grade, the tensile strength numbers look more than nominal to me. I am very happy with the build. FYI, both Porsche and Manthey Racing have noted that the factory SC bars, either titanium or metal alloy are not FIA approved roll cages.
Which underscores that this is a "cosmetic" addition which has no proven functional safety purpose..other than being a very nice cosmetic addition! Looks good for sure.
You can see the faint outline in the plastic near the right edge in this picture. Nice of Porsche to mold the standard parts with the roll bar install in mind.
Which underscores that this is a "cosmetic" addition which has no proven functional safety purpose, other than being a very nice cosmetic addition! Looks good for sure.
I disagree with that statement...it is the factory WP TI Roll Bar installed per factory specs other then the MR braces are used to secure the two front legs. As an Aerospace Engineer who has seen and designed the inside of fuselage bracing of various front line fighters over the last 35 years I am quite confident it is fully functional. Personally I think this MR bolt in process using two planes and three mounting points results in a much stronger front support structure then the factory bolt in process to their welded frame supports. If you have ever seen the factory setup, they aren't as structurally impressive as the MR braces. But I do agree it does look crazy good
Thank you...I took my time and had a blast along the way. Now I am thinking of trying to metallurgically 3D print some pistons like Porsche did to find that free 35 BHP that they discovered in their piston porotype testing last year in the GT2. I know some guys...haha.
I disagree with that statement...it is the factory WP TI Roll Bar installed per factory specs other then the MR braces are used to secure the two front legs. As an Aerospace Engineer who has seen and designed the inside of fuselage bracing of various front line fighters over the last 35 years I am quite confident it is fully functional. Personally I think this MR bolt in process using two planes and three mounting points results in a much stronger front support structure then the factory bolt in process to their welded frame supports. If you have ever seen the factory setup, they aren't as structurally impressive as the MR braces. But I do agree it does look crazy good
Firstly; I am extremely risk averse. Secondly; my confidence level is very high that the Porsche Ti Roll Bar is a world class metallurgically structurally sound component installed using components and in a manner to make the unit functionally nominal...i.e. to work as designed within the operational envelope. Lastly, If you have some detailed mathematical structural analysis to support your opinions otherwise I would be happy to review your math.
Bottom Line, we are talking about a Porsche GT2 RS WP part numbered TI Roll bar using an "install kit" designed and sold by Manthey Racing...it doesn't get much more blue blood in the world of Porsche MotorSports than that. Why your negativism towards that has me scratching my head a bit (though not really). If it was one of the hundreds of GMG RS roll bars that weighed 75 lbs more and used their install process would you call that structurally sound or also cosmetic? I think you dost protest too much
I am not negative just practical and a bit more risk averse than you?, and I don't need to try and proof a negative either...I am not purchasing/installing the bar. Rather than asking me for detailed mathmatical calculations perhaps your request would be better placed to demand empirical evidence and safety standards met by those selling the bar.
Now if there were empirical data available to support the purchase I am open minded enough to reconsider an installation decision. Otherwise, I won't risk my neck with false confidence and conjecture. That goes for all bars and installations!
Last edited by Need4Speedster; 05-12-2021 at 01:16 PM.
Reason: typo
I am not negative just practical and a bit more risk averse than you?, and I don't need to try and proof a negative either...I am not purchasing/installing the bar. Rather than asking me for detailed mathmatical calculations perhaps your request would be better placed to demand empirical evidence and safety standards met by those selling the bar.
Now if there were empirical data available to support the purchase I am open minded enough to reconsider an installation decision. Otherwise, I won't risk my neck with false confidence and conjecture. That goes for all bars and installations!
Your argument is specious and has no basis in fact. The bar is a factory part numbered Ti bar manufactured by one of the top Ti aerospace manufacturing concerns in Europe, which is installed using parts from the factory and their factory owned motorsport subsidiary MR and the installer is a Graduate degreed Aerospace Engineer. To say the functionality is based on "false confidence" is, frankly, looney talk Have a great day.
do you have a pic of the trim after cutout and installed with the bar?
I have had an issue with the factory glue I used...the panel leather came loose around the trimmed area after a test drive to operating temperature on a mid 90 degree day. After doing some research I have ordered a dual compound interior glue with a much higher temp ceiling. Glue to arrive Monday. I have also spoke to a body shop/interior shop in Central Fl., that is Porsche approved and I may take the panels down to them Monday with my new glue to look at my work and see if they see any product quality or craftsmanship issues. I will take some more pics when I have her back together as the finished product. At this point that is my only thing left on the To Do list
05-12-2021, 02:13 AM
